board 2009 (april III)

4/30 Panos @ Team – LAST NOTICE

I just received a mail from a young boy who is an active knoler. In his message he was totally fightened and shocked from the news he read about KAF (charity, thrift store) and the way SK and KVSS answered indirectly to simple questions. We must fight for this boy. We must fight for every other boy or girl who may be caught in this trap. It’s the only way to have a clear consious and it’s time for all of us to make our final decisions without involving officially the Knol Help.

I will ask for only one question and for the last time:

Who aggrees and who doesn’t? Please give me clear answers.
If I don’t get clear answers from the majority of the participant’s I’m going to resign and I’ll give the password to SK who is the legal owner of KAF. It will be time for him to take full responsibility of this project.

Actually Sajid Ali Khan, who is the first member of the foundation did some background checks as he made phone calls to some of the founders. Now I appreciate him for that exercise. — 4/24 KVSS

I called you simply because I admire you and feel honored to know you. One day we will figure out how to make your wuffy a reality
. — 4/30 SK @ KS

where is the truth ? what is going on here ? are we all idiots ? i am so frustated !!!

4/30 SK @ Team

Do you know why in spite of all the reforms and changing of laws, efforts of NGOs and all kinds of foundations and all the religious revival etc. society is as ridden with problems as ever? Because we are trying to fix the symptoms instead of treating the real disease. The real disease is the emotional baggage in most brains. And I am trying to wake up the world to this huge mistake. Some people instead of helping me in my quest want to have my knols taken off.

You can see why I need to keep KVSS in our foundation. He is irreplaceable as far as I am concerned. I am a good reader of people’s nature and he has rare qualities. Sometimes we all get emotional it reminds me of the Robert Frost poem:
‘…all the good I do no one remembers
and all the bad I do no one forgets.’
This is what happens when the brain is +1 – you may do 1000s of good deeds but one bad utterance and all the good deeds are wiped out. Yesterday I called my wife, bitch today I promised her a Mets game! These things are part of life and one must not take it to heart. One of our members made fun of my entering 17 knols in the dummies contest I realized that happiness moments are far in between these days so if he got pleasure out of it it is OK with me.
  will continue

4/30 KVSS

Thank you for giving new direction to our discussion.
I would like to share the following with fellow knol authors.
1. I saw a phamplet today distributed to our house through newspaper. It is about a seminar to expectant mothers. It says you can develop your child’s brain right from pregnancy. It gives a prominent logo which says ” Based on latest brain research”. The free seminar is on 1st May 2009 from 6.00 pm to 7.30 pm. I am sure Sajid Khan will be happy that some people are doing what probably he is advocating. I shall go and attend the seminar as it is in my estate only and I want to listen and convey to Sajid Khan the proceedings of the seminar. If I get a web site of the organization, I can give the link here.
2. I got a mail from an organization based in USA. They contacted me because of some knols that I am developing on India. I developed a knol for each state of USA to collect list of knol authors and knol on the state. Similar initiative was lauched by me for India. For India, I also started a series of knols to collect details of spiritual places, temples and veda schools. The organization contacted me based on the details I collected on veda schools and they want me to help in their coming to India and record some veda Chantings. I do not have immediate personaly contacts in this context, but I initiated my effort today.
Knol is connecting people. Knol is informing people. Our knols have some useful content and that is why I am getting around 5000 to 7000 page views per week and other authors are also getting good number of page views. I am sure in the coming days more number of authors will get more number of page views. Today my number is 14 or 15 in number of page views. I do not mind if I am pushed to 1015 in terms of page views and so many authors get more page views than me in the next year. I welcome such a happening. That will strengthen knol platform and my articles also will get good page views as knol platform gets strengthened. Of course I shall improve my knols with more content and refinements.
3. I saw a knol on gold extraction by an eminent author. I wrote a comment on the knol. IIT JEE an examination in India has a particular process in the syllabus. That process was not covered in that knol. I made a request that the process be covered as then the knol will be useful to thousands of students who prepare for the examination. The author immediately revised his knol, included the process and informed me through a comment. I am now recommending the knol to JEE candidates through my knols and blogs. Thus we are able to give constructive suggestions and make knols more useful and then inform others about them.
I am happy about the utility of the knol platform and many of the knols being written. I look forward to reading such happy stories about knols.

04/30 – Spiros Kakos @ all

Maybe start discussing about ways to promote Knol? I have read some very interesting ideas already suggested in here and I would prefer to discuss more about it than “who has done what wrong” without even having started any real activities yet! 🙂

04/30 SK @ Team

My first vol. of 200+ pages on wisdom is almost edited. I will soon post it as a knol.

@ KS
I called you simply because I admire you and feel honored to know you. One day we will figure out how to make your wuffy a reality.

@ Panos
” …Joshua went up to him and asked him, ‘Are you for us or are you for our enemies?’ ‘Neither’ he ( The Lords angel ) replied. – Joshua 5: 13-6

We are just about a dozen team founders and the membership is still growing. We have not taken any action – not one action which required voting. All we have done is post our ideas. And we do things by consensus.

You are talking about me bribing PG for he voted for me. PG did not vote for anyone. The only voting that is going on is in your head. PG simply expressed the truth; he did not favor anyone. I was expressing my pleasure for his measured and finely expressed opinion; I could not have expressed it better.  You are simply over estimating your self. You have already given me enough material to sue you handsomely! You are way off from reality. I can still help you but… you know as they say you can bring the horse to the water but…

I have a zero image of all my friends and those who are not my friends. So I approach every one as if I am meeting them for the first time. For me you are still neither good or bad ( just a little misguided ) I am not looking for a sorry from you all I am looking for are the words ‘lets forget and start fresh’. Look how nicely we were opening new chapters around the world. Some of these friends are poor and we need to help them financially to make our goals practical. It was you who made our goals the UN charter. I said lets make our goals more specific and narrow. Even the UN is underfunded. Any substantial work needs money so I thought a thrift store will generate the funds. Especially as ours would have been the world’s 1st web based thrift store. There are many places in the world where there is no concept of a thrift store so we would help in setting up virtual (though real ) thrift stores in places where they are needed most.

There is still time for you to wake up. I will never run out of patience but I will soon run out of time as I like to create eternal time and these back and forth postings will eventually make us both the laughing stock of the world. Me because I keep replying to your silly allegations.

@ Spiros
“The problem mainly arises from the fact that the “Knol Author Foundation” is *attempting* to represent Knol and Knol authors”. If by knol you mean the knol administration then we have made it clear that we are officially not connected to them. And yes we are a team of knollers who want to support all knollers and make every effort to help other knollers and to encourage more people to become knollers and knol readers.

4/29 PG @ Panos

Things might advance on rational grounds if you avoid using conspiracy theories, black vs. white arguments and personal demonization. I see you include me as a target in your crusade, just because I did not agree fully to your opinions. There was not the least ambiguity about my stances, except if you consider ambiguous the fact that I try to see all sides of the situation just because I hate binary approaches (you will find a couple of my knols that explain this). So I don’t see what makes you frame and interpret them. Don’t expect that I enter the same game by fantasizing about what could be behind your own position. As I already said, I’m open to a debate about the legal statute (and therefore also the mission) of the KAF, so I don’t see your point in antagonizing me and spreading strange interpretations. If you are ready to debate about that central topic, things are perfect. On the other hand I don’t see how to create suspicion on those that don’t share fully your opinion and having a personalized war between two sides that would get more and more suspicious of each other would make things advance.

4/29 Spiros Kakos – The foundation of the problem

I would like to make clear one thing: there is nothing wrong with people getting together and forming an online team. I have been and probably will be member in many online communities. The problem mainly arises from the fact that the “Knol Author Foundation” is *attempting* to represent Knol and Knol authors. By even using that name it suggests that it is something closely related to official Knol and that is not nearly near the truth. If one liked to start an online group about e.g. Microsoft, then Microsoft would never let him/her name that online group “Microsoft Programmers Foundation”.
If something represents me I want it to adhere to the same standards I try myself to reach. I would like to start seeing in practice actions from the Knol Author Foundation in the direction of its main motto.

4/29 Panos

@ KS
SK offered visual money (wuffies) to PG immediately after his voting. WHY? What was his services? SK stated clearly that the reason is BECAUSE HE VOTED HIM!  Is this a typical case of bribing and corruption or not?  The message is clear: vote for me and I’ll give you money…! Anytime you can receive the cash. People… come on. We are adults here. Don’t underestimate the rest of us.
KS, if I recall well you was the first one to invite PG  to come in this discussion and contribute. If I recall well you also offered him wuffies to come. Right? Also, don’t forget that PG registered in and was the only person who asked to respect his wish to “give very limited personal data” (link  ) and not reveal more information about his background. So while PG is clever enough and doesn’ take any personal risk, he votes and actively puts the rest of us at risk. WHY? I wonder, is it reasonable for someone to conclude that SK is already offering his “financial help” to some directors? Why did SK offered wuffies to PG? Why did SK offered financial help to me?
I guess you are playing your final cards. I’m deeply sorry for you personal health problems. This makes the rest of us feel sorry for you but , this can’t be an excuse to break ethical codes. It’s not leggal or ethical to buy votes. I’m happy that I continued this discussion because more “hot” news arise. This canser is deeper than I firstly believed.

4/29 KS

it’s so easy to be honest . be it .” — me
@ Panos
SK offered the whuffy after the writing of PG and not before the writing .
@ SK
you did not need to write hundreds of pages : simply tell me if Panos tells the truth :
did you call me to make a background check ? you didn’t give me that impression, didn’t you ?

4/29 Sk @ Team

“By faith the walls of Jericho fell, after the people had marched around them for seven days.” – Hebrews 11:30

If my team does not have faith in me then I will most gladly resign.
But I do want to point out that all I have done all my life is try to figure out my own emotional holes and when I saw that I came out of them I realized that it is not enough to be normal. Gd has given us this humanness in us that needs to be actualized and the same techniques that I needed to get to normal I used to try to get to becoming super normal. All humanity must be made aware of their true human potential and must be shown how to especially raise their future generation to become super normal. My own road has been extremely difficult but I choose to travel on it for I saw the potential to share my experiences with the world. For if I can do it then others who are in smaller holes not because they are abnormal but just because they are unaware of their full potential can easily do it.

My work has taken decades of thinking. And my wisdom insights have not come just from science. At least I have tried to read every single sentence/thought written on wisdom. One of my biggest sources is reading the orbiteries in NY Times, Times and Wall Street Journal. I have also always asked strangers and every person of experience I meet what is their lesson on life. I have chewed and digested all this information. And now I think I have something original to offer. And I am grateful to knol and google that they gave me this opportunity to share my work.

I am not in good health. And I think my days are numbered. My only fear is that my work will amount to nothing because I have no PhD behind my name. And this is why I want to take a stand for me and all those others out there like me. I have the utmost respect for main stream science. And my favorite authors are scientists like Steven Pinker, but the great Sufies like Rumi and Saadi are just as important. And the best of the best for me is Jesus. And when I interpret his sayings I do it like no one else only because I try to treat his sayings in scientific terms that I have invented.  And I have quantified  all human behavior and all emotions etc…

Do you know why I did not back up my claims that I met President Obama several times and even talked to him several times? ( And this is extreemly embrassing for me ). Because I saw myself on CNN and my own horniness was strongly coming through. So I did not order the tape. But at least I think I can prove that I know horniness inside out better than most experts! Thus I can challenge any expert on horniness with pleasure! My great honor in all this is that my knol on horniness will help others a lot.

The one tape that shows me through out is of the rally at Poali, PA because I was sitting right behind him. In fact one of President Obama’s right hand man said to me, “We like your ideas but to really join us you will have to get rid of that look on your face…”

Now that I have disclosed this I will try to order this tape from CNN and post it on here. Also the incident that occurred at Meadowlands …

To be continued

4/29 SK @ Panos

Our work is still only at the idea level. We have not taken any action so far that requires votes. And I am not doing anything unless every team member is on board. The idea to give Randy a trophy happened in a too short a period. At that time we were all very impressed by him. Who knew! “Untill now, the massive fraud is the failure to disclose corporate status”. Panos which planet are you living on? I should stop responding to your postings it is all so rediculous. But I will continue to treat you with respect because I still consider you like a son.

We keep bringing wuffy in because we feel that the international monetary system is flawed and we need a humanness currency. We have not figured out the nuts and bolts but at least KS has pointed us in the right direction. A not for profit organization is not just a charity. The thrift store is just a tiny part of the foundation. You take a small part and blow it out of proprtion. A thrift store is not like cash will be flowing in. I will have to donate my own antiques from my extensive collection to get it rolling. First I have to give my own money and money from my friends before any profit for the foundation can be achieved.

4/29 Panos @ Team

About team spirit
KVSS just said: “ I specifically sent an email to all founders/directors to come out with suggestions for doing background checks. But due to reasons known only to him, he might have explained some through this bulletin board” That’s true. KVSS suggested to do background checks by exchanging private mails and NOT in this public bulletin board. In this way the members (like Spiros) wouldn’t have any clue what’s going on. I found KVSS’s attitude suspicious and I stopped contacting him via mail. My purpose is to write my ideas in public in order to serve transparency. This is obviously considered as not a “team” work by KVSS and SK. Since then KVSS, claiming to be a professor, refused several times to post his academic CV and that confirmed my suspicion that something is going wrong here.

About illegal actions
SK asked if something is illegal here. My aim was to write in public and help in transparency issues and thus prevent illegal actions. Untill now, the massive fraud is the failure to disclose corporate status. The recruitment message that the members received soliciting membership in KAF says nothing about legal status as a Charity. The e-mail solicitation is signed by the Foundation. Simple members have the impression that they are involved in a simple online community of authors with no money involved. I thought that it would be irresponsible for me to resign from KAF without publicly informing Google Team and those innocent people who may be involved in legal (or illegal) actions.

About democracy
SK stated “We haven’t done anything else” and that’s true. He NEVER initiated or engaged a voting procedure with all directors or all members participating. He requested votes only from friends and never respected the opposite opinion as equal. He always announced his own decisions and presented them as the foundation’s decisions, like the award that he personally gave to Randy representing this foundation. We never voted for this award. If someone disagrees with SK, he gives him one option: to resign. In the meanwhile he makes efforts to bribe (he calls it “offer financial help”) or even threaten. No voting whatsoever! I was kind enough and worked with SK in a trial basis considering that my technical will help him engage a voting system, an extra system that platform don’t provide. His denial is totally unacceptable, not transparent and not democratic. This makes him look irresponsible or suspicious.

Economy or corruption?
KS said it’s not democracy … it’s economy. When democracy and economy help each other we call it “corruption”. SK tried to offer me financial help in the same mail that he urged me to stop question KVSS. He even offered ws (visual money) to PG because he voted for his opinions in this discussion. This is the basic idea behind corruption and suspicious behavior.

4/29 SK @ Team

I am not interested in proving that I am good and Panos is bad. We are both driven by the same passion to improve the world. My objective is very clear ‘ The majority of mankind lives their lives without fully knowing who they really are and I am trying to show that this is not because it is very complicated to know ones self it is simply due to lack of proper knowledge. I once auditioned for “America has talent”. And I said that my talent is to introduce people to who they really are! And I asked the judge may I introduce you to your very own self? And this is what I said, ” Do you know that your so called conscience which you think is a voice that is put there by Gd is no foreign element. It is the real you. Your conscience is your real self! When your conscience is speaking it is the real you who is speaking.’ If I can wake up the world to this fact then I think I will have done my job. But it is like I am just the script writer and I will need the whole crew from many many departments+ financing ( hence the idea to also start a thrift store ) to produce the movie. And unfortunately I am not even a good script writer. I am just the idea man. So if I succeed in my mission to introduce everyone else to their own selves the only credit I can claim is that this movie is based on an idea provided by me – the one and only Sajid Khan ( we are all one and only including you ). So I thought that ( and I think I am right ) this grand opportunity by google to flush out original ideas from ordinary folks like me, is my biggest break and along with the real script writers like KVSS, PG ( especially PG ), AK, Kishan, Peter, KS etc. I will achieve my goals.

My other goal is to see if I can help in any other problems facing the world. Please remember ( I am the first person in the world to use the term ‘Fulcrum of wind power is vacuum power’). Vacuum power is the pulley/fulcrum of the wind. Vacuum power is the most underutilized energy source. It is gaining ground slowly but eventually it will be the key to a greener energy production.

I have another important goal which I am not disclosing yet. I am going to keep silent about it till the time when I will/can be really heard.

And I am not clear on what contribution Panos wants to make to change the world. Perhaps he should write some real knols.

4/29 KVSS

Old post reposted

The following proposal was made by me on 23.1.2009 on Knol Bulletin Board
Shall we declare some thoughts as our commitment to knol visitors as members of the foundation.
1. We believe in the utility and value of electronic publishing.
2. We are committed to providing accurate and reliable data, information and explanation in our knols.
3. Our mission is to provide material useful to knol visitors – knowledge seekers.
4. We will be active knollers – We respond to comments on our knols – We respond to edits of our knols as quickly as possible. Many of us are not professional writers. So visitors may have to bear with the occasional delays due to preoccupation of authors with their main professions.
5. We as active knollers will contribute to others’ knols to improve them and enrich them.
6. We will provide references to various facts so that readers can cross check the facts from basic sources.
7.We will endeavor to protect the copyrights of authors in various media and if any objection is raised by any author in respect of any of knols we will take appropriate action to remove the material from the knol.
8. We as knol authors and foundation members will not click on any advertisment on knol.
9. We are happy with the knol platform and are committed to knol as a publishing platform and will put in our best efforts to make it a useful wiki-based knowledge base.

@Team members
Change or add as required so that we can finalize and post in our members and foundation pages.

4/29 KVSS
The knol-ege competition is becoming popular. More entries are coming and even people are reading them with interest. Hindi and telugu bulletin boards are set up to do a little bit to promote this competition. Tamil and Malayam boards are also being set by a foundation member.
The problem is not transparency. Every thing done so far was transparent only. Now,  there is a problem of team and team spirit. Once we came to know that we are naive in believing that every profile is genuine, we wanted to do  background checks. I specifically sent an email to all founders/directors to come out with suggestions for doing background checks. But due to reasons known only to him, he might have explained some through this bulletin board, Panos chose to make announcements instead of making suggestions to the team and rest is on this board. So there is a breakdown in team spirit. There is breakdown in mutual appreciation. Issues which were appreciated earlier were being denounced by the same person now in public. Fine. When people are predetermined to do certain activities, logic does not have a place anymore. Any way, as Sajid Khan said what have we done? We wrote some knols. We made some postings on bulletin board. We wrote some comments. We wanted to hold physical meetings of knol authors. Only one took place so far. Every thing is transparent. How the group came about is transparent. None of the group members were friends before. All relationships happened online due to knol. People of different countries and different religions came together. People of different occupations and age groups came together.

4/29 KS @ peggy

on 3/13 KS and on 3/13 KS @ SK i wrote
i think… it’s necessary to cultivate ones womb feeling .
i mean the communication between the womb feeling and the brain .
(you can feel the womb by the the solar plexus and there are also some brain cells around the stomach) .
the womb feeling can tell the brain if and about what the brain shall think .
so you need a good womb feeling to give the brain the right hints .
its like an inner voice (in your dreams you can hear it too) .
it’s like a woman tells her husband what is needed to be done 😉

so i think (feel), your personal feeling is of higher worth than all our thinking .
that means, that we indeed must start again from the scratch .
before KAF, there was this bulletin board and knol star .
shurely we must reconstruct knol star too, but that doesn’t mean, that knol star is in any respect a sub-structure of KAF . it’s totally independent .
so you are invited to make your vote .
(you simply may tell me, who of the knol writers you know should be knol star by your personal feeling)
that obliges you to nothing . in the contrary, it’s the elected person who risks to lose your vote .
it’s like a person ranking .

@ Panos
to offer whuffy is not demorcatic, it’s economy, s….. .

4/28 SK @ Panos

Deep in the sea are riches beyond compare.
But if you seek safety, it is on the shore.

– Saadi, Rose Garden

Honesty and transparency are a given. What have we done in hiding?

Can you please name one thing that i have done which is illegal.

And what kind of language is this, ‘ You are either with them, or against them.’ You keep saying perhaps but you keep acting as if we have done undemocratic things and have committed unethical activity. All we have done is write knols and post our ideas on this BB. We haven’t done anything else. Not one thing.

How do you propose to fulfill all the aims of the foundation? If we have to have a legal foundation then we have to do some legal filings. Filing tax returns is simple. As soon as I file for last year I will post it on this board. And don’t worry if they come after the foundation they will come after me you are not on it yet.

‘He is a willing to be a proactive accomplice and recruiter in a scheme to sustain massive fraud.’
This is enough to take you to court. But I will never do it.

Your statements show that you believe we are doing illegal stuff. We are doing nothing illegal!!! If writing knols and posting our ideas is illegal then indeed we are guilty.

4/28 Spiros Kakos @ all about Transparency as the basis for Discussion

[and as basis for Foundation membership]

I “vote” for transparency. If someone has an objection, then we should discuss it. If someone has a problem with transparency then we should discuss it as well. If someone has any other issue then we should discuss it as well! But the basis for all discussion is transparency. I am not in favour or against someone in particular. What I say is rather simple: I do not want to be a member of a foundation if I cannot be certain that its actions are always within its scope. And that cannot be verified if there is no transparent procedure of voting! I already did that comment (see and I got an answer “The activities are within that scope only”. I am happy to hear that, but a statement made once on a specific time and place will not reassure me for the rest of my membership in a live and active foundation. I want to know more. I agree with the creation of a new Knol-promoting team with no official legal obligations – just some people interested in writing and that’s all.

4/28 Panos @ Members and Directors of KAF

I don’t think that PG understood what I said. We don’t have the facts to prove that something is illegal. Perhaps it is. Perhaps not. If we had evidence we would discuss with Google Team and lawyers right now. 
Transparency is something different. It’s about proving that everything is working well above any suspicion. SK and KVSS, the founder and the president, NEVER iniated a voting procedure. You are either with them, or against them. No transparency, no democracy. The members are resigning the one next to the other and no voting procedure is embraced. They refuse to participate in that I built as a technology director of this online community to facilitate democracy (as me, spiros, peggy and common sence suggest). SK just offered Wuffies (visual money) to PG because he voted for his opinion! This is not exactly what I consider as transparent or demorcatic. My personal standards are higher.

I counseled a friend of mine, who knows more about the US law and has participated in high position(s) in legaly found organization(s) in US. Check this out:

The serious problem is that KAF is actually a registered charity. It has an obligation to account for funds and to file tax returns with Federal and State even if it has no income. If the KAF wants to dissolve the charity status, it can be done procedurally by SK or by other parties who can prove they have the authority. If it’s not done, and KAF continues, I think New Jersey law penalizes non-filers $500 per year. And Federal penalties are worse.

SK is now handling money under US law on behalf of our online activities. Even if SK say that he will terminate KAF I don’t trust him anymore. His attitude is not transparent and not demorcatic. The most important is that he and KVSS are moving dangers and if we resign new knol authors may be caught in this trap. It’s time for us the directors to take our responsibilities and vote for a final decision. I made my final proposal here and in I’m planning to file a final report in Google Team before resigning and I want to know the opinion of the rest of the directors.

The questions are:
1. Do you believe KAF online entity should be resloved (in order to protect new authors). YES or NO ? 
2. Do you believe that we must build a new foundation as an online community without any law obligations and with a different name?
@ Peggy
You did the right decision. Many respectable authors already resigned. I’m going to make a last effort to establish any kind of transparent voting procedure.

4/28 SK @ PG

You make my day. Thanks. Can I please offer you some Ws?

We need the legal status if we need to create real changes on the ground around the world. If we are just knollers then we don’t need anything. Currently mostly affluent people/communities who already have computers have access to knol information. We want to bring knol knowledge where it is needed the most, the poor areas of the world.

I have been publishing similar ideas for the last 30+ years. Finally I thought that I have a team who will help me and encourage me and even take my ideas forward. Instead of that we have a situation where there is an attempt to throw out and ban my knols. But thank Gd the knol administration is no novice. They know that all that the KAF team is doing is writing knols and keep exchanging ideas on this BB. That is all we have done so far.
Our BB is co-authored by most of our founders. Panos wants us to transfer this into his sole knol. I don’t mind but not in the way he is going about it.

@ Peggy
Please keep the door open. I am sure these are some temporary ‘misunderstandings’.You are important for us.

4/28 PG

Two things make me consider that it is premature to take decisions about the KAF existence:
  • A lack of evidence of any wrongdoing by the foundation itself,
  • The fact that I don’t have personal reasons to distrust the current leaders, with whom I always experienced a spirit of positive cooperation.
On the other hand, I can agree that the legal statute can be debated,that we should dig about the advantages and caveats to operate under a foundation statute, and whether it fits the goals of an author (or an authors + users) community. Maybe we should now gather more elements and opinions about that issue.

4/28 Peggy Strickland

I have requested that my name be removed from the KAF membership. I bear no ill will to anyone in the foundation. My personal feeling is that it would be best to begin anew with a different name, etc. But, that is also a personal choice for all who choose to remain.  Best of luck to you all with your writing.

4/28 SK @ Team

” I fear that you will not reach Mecca,

  O Nomad! – For the road which you are
  following leads to Turkestan”.
 – Skeikh Saadi, Rose Garden, ( ‘On the manner of Dervishes’)

So where is the massive fraud in all of this?

My research foundation I named, ‘The 4th R foundation’ do you know why? . The R stands for reality as in the 3 Rs of education. In my view the most important R is the R of reality, the R of ‘ruth (truth). And do you know the reality of thrift stores? It takes years of efforts before it becomes successful. Most thrift stores succeed when the founder is rich and donates his own money or if he is famous. Others struggle and most often fold up. My thinking was that as I build up trust with my hypothesis I will get together a team and together we will make the Wuffy thrift store successful. Right now I am making my living out of an antique store. I thought that as soon as I can start making money for my expenses through my wisdom books I can donate some of my antiques to our thrift store and give it a try. Also all those who promised me donations for my original foundation I plan to cash their rain checks for this thrift store.
But I am also an inventor. If you google my full name, ‘Sajid Ali Khan’ I come up # 1 on google as an inventor (some company is tracking my inventions for many years now). And this is what I will do. I have been working on a ‘Flavor enhancing cooking pot’. The principle is very simple but to make it practical it is proving very difficult. All the patent applications I have done through self teaching myself. This one I have spent tons of money on. I have paid a lawyer fully and have even hired a draftsman who has been working on it for over 2 years now. I am going to donate this invention to the foundation only if we can all come back together as a family.

So basically to make this thrift store a reality I will have to donate my time, my antiques/collectibles and even my most serious invention. And even then we are not sure we can make any profit unless you all take it up as your own project. I am not very successful at marketing but my thrill is in inventing. I had a one year provisional patent but as the designing dragged on it expired and now the copyright is not covered. So I cannot post it but all those who are willing to help make this a commercial success I can email the concept to them.

4/28 KVSS

With best wishes to everyone

The foundation came into existence because of initiatives of some people. I credit Sajid with contacting me online by writing comments on knols. He even contacted me through phone. He could get my telephone number. How? I do not know. Then in discussion, I raised the need for an association of authors – a dynamic knol author community to support the knol technical platform. I wrote comments on some knol authors’ bio knols. From the comment that I wrote on Andreas Kemper’s bio knol, Kalle Schwarz came into contact. Then I wrote a comment top on 10 to 15 authors knol in terms of page views and Judge came in contact. Mr. Peter Greenfinch has made certain edits to my knols and then we contacted him, he joined us on the bulletin board. Then Andreas Kemper and Jesus Martin. The foundation was registered by Sajid Ali Khan as he had prior experience with such activity. It is a US citizen only foundation as far legal issues are concerned. 

The foundation was trying to contact more members. Judge took that initiative and Panos must have come in contact with Judge in the process. Judge and Panos worked together in setting up foundation pages. The foundation pages came up after I requested Judge to set up  a members page.  I developed a set of objectives and programs and posted it for further discussion by founders. I also posted a code of conduct for members. Judge created a forum on proboard for discussion by members. But it did not pick up. We wanted SK to post an agenda for periodic discussions but did not pick up. I sent an email to all persons designated as directors regarding promoting writing of at least one comprehensive and detailed knol by every knol author. But the initiative is yet to get the required response.

In the meantime, we had comments, messages and correspondence regarding pushing some members out of this group. Finally, the process resulted in a public statement that Randy had some knols which were exact replicas of some other websites. He made some statements and removed all his knols. What should the foundation do?

Panos, Andreas Kemper expressed their views. SK and KS expressed their views. Then there were changes in the views expressed. The decision was taken. Then what next? The attempts of some to  push some members out of this group was informed to all the founding members and Panos through emails. From that time, Panos preferred this bulletin board and stopped using email route.

The rest is visible to everybody to read.

As a person who initiated this foundation idea, I shall move on with my idea. As a person who incorporated the foundation legally, Sajid Khan will move on with the idea. If the foundation idea is appealing, and some other members want to start new associations, there are free to start new online communities. I know in orkut, there are six communities of english bloggers. There may be many communities in various languages. That could be a support to blogger.

There can be multiple communities in knol and that may provide strength to knol. There is no reason to create a conflict situation. Either cooperate or compete. We did something worth notice and appreciation.  You form a new community and do something much more worthy. I keep on telling. Any increase in network of knol is good for every knol author. So if a new community comes forward, works more vigorously and creates very high quality knols that bring visitors in millions to the platform, we are here to cheer them.

Don’t try to displace us from our pages and space which we have created. Create your pages and space and achieve. We are here to cheer you for your achievement. All the best. With best wishes to everyone.

4/27 SK @ Team

All that the KAF directors are doing is write knols and post our ideas on this BB. That is it. So where is this idea coming from that there is a huge cospiraicy to supress democracy and indulge in fraud. Inspite of all these months we are still more or less just in discussion mode. A few times I suggested to lets take the next step. But no one was in any hurry. I was the only one in a hurry as I wanted to start the online thrift store. Do you know the massive amount of waste in the first world? I thought we could start by taking stuff where it is in surplus and sending it to where it would make a life changing difference. One person would donate another would bear the shipping charges and some needy person would benifite thousands of miles away. It is a long time ago that I gave up on anger or hate or tit for tat. The more I am accused the more I have faith in Jesus that if I have done no fraud the truth will be known sooner than later. I don’t want to suppress anything the only thing I do want to extract is garbage from peoples brain. And I thought that with this excellent team we will make not only the individual brains accross the globe squeaky clean we will clean up the mess in the brains of groups and countries too. I got a beautiful idea today to write on guess… yes exactly a new angle on wisdom. But whats the use… my best hopes think I am a fraud so I will just go to sleep, it is now 12.59 am.

4/27 SK @ Panos

Because I have big plans for KAF it was my idea to register it as a non profit. Randy had nothing to do with it. I already have another fully approved non profit – The 4th R Foundation. Inc. What ever money I spent on it has come from my own pocket. I have not taken a single dollar from anyone. In fact some of my friends offered me small sums of about 2000 – 3000 dollars. I did not say no I just said hold on when the time is right I will take the money. But my foundation never got off the ground so I did not take any money from anyone. Don’t you think you are assuming too much here. I don’t understand my own behavior? Read my knols I am trying to show the basic cause of human behavior.  ‘He is a willing to be a proactive accomplice and recruiter in a scheme to sustain massive fraud’  you sure have a wild imagination. Let me repeat this non profit plan was solely my idea. The reason I wanted to make it into a legal charity is because just the internet is not enough. We need class rooms and lunches and computers to bring our knols to the poor areas of the world. And I do have the expertise to at least raise some money for this noble cause because i am an antique dealer and know how thrift stores raise money.

You still think KVSS is ‘perhaps’ a professor?  And we are all involved in a scheme. The only scheme I have is to try to wake up the world to my original ideas and also help all other knollers along.

KAF is already disgraced? Randy did bring disgrace to the foundation but he is gone. As soon as I saw what had happened I even asked for the trophy that I had given him.

“All 3 initial founders (Randy, SK, KVSS) can’t be trusted to be colleagues any online community of authors.” Hey Panos where is all this anger coming from? I have revealed more than anyone else my whole inside out life because my desire is to share the emotional holes that I was in. I even told you that I am just a BA. But I also have a totally new insight on the cause of human nature and its practical applications. It is all there for all to see.

Look I still consider you as a fellow spiritual knoller twin. And I will always try to help you. I am a fan of each and every one of our members including the ones who resigned. Any one I come into contact with I like to help personally. I even wrote a knol in your honor. I sent a pair of earrings to Chrissy that cost me $200.00. And my intention is to send a gift to each one of our team member. I have offered gifts to some including you in the form of wuffy. I kept urging you to stop questioning KVSS’ CV because I know he is legitimate.

Just lets take a break for a week and then decide everything as family.

@ Team (including Panos)
You are all still my family and I respect you all and will always do whatever I can to fulfill your dreams: personal and our bug to change the world to become better. As I have said in my personal knols I had this
fixation that no one loves me. So I want the whole world to love me especially people who I consider as my better twins – each one of you.

As far as the foundation is concerned it was totally my idea and if there is a scheme to cheat it is all mine. But I want to assure you that i have not collected a single dime. Because I will start only if each one of you is on board and when the time is ripe. I even told Panos that he is doing the work of two positions so he can have whatever position he wants. But this is not the way saying with full confidence and using such language as if we want to commit fraud.

This is what I want to suggest: Lets resolve everything as family. Hold an election and rearrange all the positions. I can remain as director or you can throw me out. Let me complete the process at the US level and the international level. Let me also start the internet thrift store, please read the knol, ‘Whuffy thrift store.’ Once everything is in place you can throw me out of this too. Unless you can find some one who can do this for us. I want a legal organization only because to be able to finance schools around the world we will need real money.

As a fellow knoller I do need your help. I need you to join forces with me to start (knol:bottom line of successful nations) Also I want you to join me in ‘Wisdom Express’. I will also try to get back (its dead now).
Randy and KVSS have nothing to do with this non profit idea. It was all mine.
@ PG and AK
Your knols are my favorite. What do you think of all this. I am a toooootaaaal fraud?

4/27 Panos @ Members and directors

It’s time to share with you some info I got from one of my sources (a trusted colleague)
By completing the filing for 501.c.3 status — the registration of KAF as a charity — KAF will be implementing Randy’s scheme for the production of ill-gotten money. SK appears to be searching for a third U.S. person to add to the board so he can complete the filing. Those three accept liability for misdeeds and must provide verified information for legal service (e.g., court summons).This shows clearly that SK does not understand his own behavior. He is a willing to be a proactive accomplice and recruiter in a scheme to sustain massive fraud. With Randy gone, perhaps any money raised in this fashion would be used for legitimate purposes. Perhaps. However, the scheme sprang from the loins of a confessed plagiarizer. The scheme was part of a cancer. The scheme places legal liability on members. Your actions (=panos) are a chemotherapy to permanently destroy the cancer. There is no reason I can find to have an “ad hoc” writers group working as a legal charity or legal anything. There are millions of informal groups that have no legal standing and thus no liability for members” 
Perhaps SK and KVSS are legitimate, perhaps not. Perhaps we will all face the court as online accomplishers some day, perhaps not. Perhaps KVSS is a well respected professor in his community, perhaps not. Perhaps all directors are involved in a scheme. Perhaps not. Perhapsperhapsperhaps… 
The point is that the behavior of all 3 founders is totally suspicious! I’ve showed you evidence that the name of KAF is already disgraced. All 3 initial founders (Randy, SK, KVSS) can’t be trusted to be colleagues any online community of authors. As you already know, well respected authors quited and share the same opinion with me about transparency. In fact they make an effort to inform knol members about transparency and this is a first knol organization with a bad review filed to Google Knol concerning fraud. Saying that you are a member of KAF isn’t such an honor anymore. SK and KVSS constantly deny to show credencials (see the academic CV discussion) or even engage transparency proceedings (see denial to participate in SK’s suddenly interest for providing me financial help was in the same mail discussion in which he urged me to stop question KVSS. At this point SK crossed the limits. Later on, he tried to present me publicly as not a “legal member”. At the end he threatened that he will dissolve KAF if I don’t stop writing about these matters. I used to sympathize SK but now it’s not personal any more. I love SK even though I don’t know him in person. I also love all the members of this foundation that may be involved in a fraud and manipulated by a not-so-innocent behavior. The truth is that SK and KVSS backup eachother and constantly adopt a suspicious behavior actively blocking transparency and putting the rest of us at high risk. They even don’t want to understand what democracy is all about. I respect SK’s struggle in life, I respect his personal dreams and I wish there was a more polite way to put my opinions. Online transparency is always about describing the situation it as it is. KAF is still working in an unorthodox way and It’s time to make some serious decisions. My proposal is very clear, we must actively stop this potential cancer and clear our names. Do all directors agree on this?
I made a proposal in The first step is to resolve KAF. Please visit this link and vote and/or comment this proposal. All suggestions are welcomed equally.

4/27 KS @ Spiros

you are the one of us with the deepest insight in programming .

what do you think of the following ?
all we need is a syntax to knit knols together and a browser (chrome II) to handle this intelligently .
A @ B means that this is a privat knol-mail (A) according to a knol (B) . it is only visible by A and by B .
A c B means that this is a comment (A) to a statement (B) . if you have B, the browser shows you, that there is a comment . if you have A, the browser shows you the statement and the comment .
A e B means that A is a B (a category) .

4/27 AK

@ Panos

I agree. We have to build a new organization with the principles of transparency, democracy and open participation.

4/27 KS @ Panos

you are intelligent and very courageous . you could be more intelligent . 


4/27 Panos

@ KS and AK
I’m not going to participate in any community who doesn’t respect the principles of transparency, democracy and open participation. Krishan already made a similar statement and Murry was presented as a “black sheep” by KVSS. Peter made a clear statement in his review of KAF. I remind you that those people already revealed a major scandal inside knol platform involving KAF and their work is respected by Knol Help.
The truth is simple. Randy, SK and KVSS are the initial founders of KAF and the “faces” of KAF. Those people have crossed the limits and their behavior is not transparent. Randy was decent enough to resign. SK and KVSS had all the time to reconsider. Their behavior is irresponsible and put the rest of the members at possible risk. Now it’s not about participating any more. It’s about serving justice, clearing our names and preventing a fraud from being organized inside Knol platform. 

4/27 KS

well done, AK . the right word at the right time .

my last word (who died? don’t hope KAF) : let’s get rid of the directorship . as KVSS wrote :
leadership tussle: it all started from there” .
all we need is a team, a knol star (judge II) and a treasurer (as a point of intersection with real life)

4/27 AK

This Foundation was built on confidence. It did a great job. With the bulletin board and the KAF Knol wasn’t anymore an anonymous Google-Project, but it was a project of people with ideas. This Bulletin Board was the heart of the communication, the center of the Knol community.

But now the confidence is broken. The trouble was seen before in the conflict in Best Knols of the Month – in this conlict there are different fractions. The fraction Peter, Krishan and Murry and the Knol-Metrics discoverd Randys copyright-infringement. Since this time the KAF has no fundament of confidence. We missed the chance to rebuild this confidence.
Now we have different fractions. I beliefe, that KVSS, Sajid, Kalle wants to do the best for the Knol Authors. I also beliefe, that Peter, Krishan and Murray wants to do the best for the Knol Authors. And also does Panos.
It’s time for a new beginning. Let’s built a new organization with more transparency and democraty. The old Foundation was the Phase I. Now it’s time for Phase II.

4/27 Panos

@ SK

you and KVSS always give indirect answers. You write about, authorship, human values, love etc. and in practice you refuse to adopt any transparent principles. You two are among the 3 initial founders of this foundation and the main faces. You should be the ones to give an example in transparency issues. You just expect us to trust you and your friends without any questions. You say that Peter, Krishan and Murry are definitely more qualified and effective. I totally agree. Krishan quited some days before, making accusations about unacceptable transparency problems in our foundation. Peter wrote an official report about KAF  report about Knol Author Foundation .The summary of this report describes KAF with only one word: “unrepresentative”! The 3d person, Murry, is accused by KVSS who adopted a very irresponsible attitude.  Peter, Krishan and Murry  made their posistions very clear: KAF is a sucpicious foundation. 


@ Spiros
As you can see, I totally agree with you. This is not a place for a convenient conversation. It seems that some people don’t like open participation and transparency. 


4/27 SK

When KVSS created this knol he invited others to own it on a rolling basis. Then he decided to make it into a co-author knol inviting all the founders. When I formed this foundation I kept shifting my position as more people took over the main positions. In fact I have a few affective sites I want to develop and so I do not want any position on KAF. I want to develop a foundation to wake up the poorer countries to the miracle of +2 super mature group power. See my knol, ‘Bottom line of successful nations.’ Another one I want to develop is ‘’/’Brain power club’. I also want to get back ‘’ because those guys who bought it from me are not doing anything with it. Please look up my knol ‘shypower’. And I am devoting time to my ‘Wisdom Express’ which has proved to be already popular. The only part of the KAF I would like to manage for now is the ‘Wuffy thrift store’ so that we can have the money to ‘bring life’s real chances through education to every pocket of poverty and ignorance in the world’ also hopefully by next year we can bring at least one person from every corner of the world to attend a conference maybe in New York City. I am hoping that once KAF starts rolling and I have some connections then I will try to persuade my partners from all over the world to take up these other projects.

So what are we hiding or trying to controll? We are just writing knols and trying to build a consensus to take KAF forward for the greater good. I have learned the hard way that if others perceive your actions as wrong just treat it as a temperory misunderstanding and keep doing the right thing without prejudice. Eventually people will know the truth.
@ KS
KAF belongs to the world. And as usual we want the last word on this from you.

4/27 Scholarly Publications on Knol

I think there is opportunity to publish PhD thesis on knol. I wrote about this on knol help bulletin board. – KVSS


4/27 KVSS

It may be good to document the evolution of this bulletin board and formation of knol author foundation. Some people can use it as a case study in the development of online communities. They may point out where errors were committed by various agents that led to heated discussions and expression of concerns about the abilities and intentions of people.

It will be good to document now itself. Already memory is fading. Who had done what? When? I am slowly collecting various comments that led to this bulletin board and knol authors foundation.
A You tube video by a knol author on American Education – Dr. Marvin Herndon. Information sent to KVSS Narayana Rao by Email.



4/27 KS (some votings)

is it okay to give Peter Baskerville 100 w for his merit to hold knol clean ? chrissy: yes | no, peggy: yes | no, AK: yes | no, DB: yes | no, JMC: yes | no, KS: yes, KVSS: yes | no, MMN: yes | no, PB: yes | no, PG: yes | no, PP: no, RK: yes | no, SK: yes | no, SKAKOS: yes | no, …

(MS and KM have also merits, but they worked against KAF, so they cannot get whuffy from me because to avoid the suspicion of corruption . PB can give them whuffy .)

knol directors or members who want to apply for a director position are obligated to create detailed profile on their profile page if this is demanded by a member

chrissy: yes | no, peggy: yes | no, AK: yes | no, DB: yes | no, JMC: yes | no, KS: yes, KVSS: yes | no, MMN: yes | no, PB: yes | no, PG: yes | no, PP: yes | no, RK: yes | no, SK: yes | no, SKAKOS: yes | no, …
thank you, thank you, thank you so much, thank you, thank you very much, thank you, thank you, thanks

hi PG, good comment !


is KAF the intellectual property of KVSS, RK and SK ?

chrissy: yes | no, peggy: yes | no, AK: yes | no, DB: yes | no, JMC: yes | no, KS: no, KVSS: yes | no, MMN: yes | no, PB: yes | no, PG: yes | no, PP: yes, RK: yes | no, SK: yes | no, SKAKOS: yes | no, …

4/26 SK @ Panos

All I am saying is we are fighting over something that is not even formed yet. We have accomplished just the first step. You will always be more than legal. I did not offer financial help I offered guidance. I am an antique dealer here in NYC and I can show you how you can make money. I am just showing you that I still care for you and will always care for you. You are like my son. You will always be # 1 for me. I am just saying who are we to investigate when knol administration does not require it?

I am requesting you to please don’t be obsessed with KVSS’ CV. He is genuinely a professor. He has contributed much more than you will any time soon.

When we get to the international stage you will be an important part of it. I consider myself nothing. You will always be more important. But I have to share with you what I feel and know. And it is not a threat. And what have I got to hide? Read my knols on me. I am telling the whole world my shortcomings: I am even sharing my most embarrassing moments in order to guide others if they are in the same situation; that I have had deep emotional problems and that it is just that I have discovered some new angles to old questions of philosophy. I do not think that I need a degree in psychology to explain why the egg is huge and the sperm is tiny! Or my other stuff.
KVSS is definitely one of top knol contributors. I know that his knols have not got the top pick knol award and I know exactly why this is. He wants to cover all the topics and then go back and improve each one.

And please tell me what are my plans? Even KVSS is not a legal member he is in India. Yes if we continue to quarrel like this then I will dissolve it. But you can start one yourself, you can call it Knollers foundation or knol writers foundation/club/association. As I said knol is only 5% of my life and I cannot let it take over my brain with worries. I am getting ready to launch my Wisdom Express in favor of Mayor Bloomberg and I have neglected my ‘’ which I have to revive.
With your current attitude your contributions are having a negative effect. You are driving the most prolific knoller away from us.

4/26 SK @ Spiros

Look at Panos’ attitude right now, you expect us to hand over control of this board to him in this kind of atmosphere. If he cools down and this discussion is resolved then it is possible. Progress will come through new ideas. I am trying to tell him that we are all spiritual twins. All trying to contribute our bits. Look at KVSS’ contribution.Even knol help has appreciated some of his suggestions.  All Panos needed to do was contact KVSS’ institute or even see him listed as a professor.  When I saw what Randy had done I was shocked and I hesitated for a few hours. I did not know how to respond.

And why this obsession of CV? Knol administration does not ask for it.

4/26 Panos @ SK

It’s not anger because it’s pure logic. You totally verify my allegations. You and KVSS don’t have any respect to transparency, democracy and open participation. You totally backuped KVSS and many times you tried to stop me from investigating. Suddenly, yesterday you get interested about my financial status sending me mail offering financial help. Finally you realized that transparency is an “obstacle” for your plans and you are threatening me that I’m not even a legal member of the foundation. You even say that if I continue to ask questions you will dissolve the foundation. And who has the power to do this? You and only you, right? This is the way you and KVSS understand transparency and democracy? By denying answering to simple questions and cutting heads? Suddenly you and KVSS are the only “legal” members and the rest of us are the “illegal” ones?  I never received any money from you or any other person here. I was very careful and no money transfer was ever acomplished. On the contrary, I donated a full time hosting service for two years (that costs over 170$) to the technology director position (me) for the needs of the foundation and I also donated a domain name ( As you can see in the KAF main page  I’m offering my servises to the foundation as a technology director here. I created logos, a website and I made research for our technical needs. Practically, me and Randy did the hard work organizing the technical presense of this foundation and making international contacts. You totally underestimate us. We all can see who wants to be legal or illegal here. 


04/26 – Spiros Kakos (SKAKOS) @ all

Why do we still write in a serialized-text-based environment like Notepad? Panos has started a new forum at and we should all move there in order to facilitate the convertation. This helps support the better maintenance of convertation threads and who is responding to who. Its time to move on to the new age or watch the new age pass by…This Knol can still be maintained as a contents page for the convertations held in that forum or as a repository of the main decisions taken.  


4/26 SK @ Panos

It is very clear that you are acting out of anger. Just cool off for now. ‘SK yesterday started offering me money’ Why would I offer you money. For what?* I wanted to know if you are financially OK so that if you are not then I can guide you and help you personally because in spite of our little problems I feel that I should make a positive contribution to your life.

*You are not even a legal member yet, though I fully respect you and am and will continuing to treat you as one. We have been offering wuffy for some time now. It is just a token of appreciation. As I recall I offered W100.00 to you some time back. You are young and passionate but you are assuming stuff. If this stuff goes on then I will just dissolve this foundation and you can start one of your own. These personal hurts have to be kept aside and we must dedicate ourselves to serving our bigger cause. Even if you curse me etc. I will still love you because that is the only way; and I will still always try to help you in any way I can.
However one thing is clear, the team of Peter, Krishan and Murry are definitely more qualified and effective than me and they can be a bigger asset to this foundation. So if they agree we can offer them the posts of executive director, treasurer and secretary. I can just be a regular director. These positions are temporary anyway till a proper structure is in place.
@ PG and AK
You rare beings you are both # 1 for me. Please weigh in on this.
@ MM and KH
How do you feel about all this. It looks like this will not stop until we have your take on this. Please lets us know what you think. Is Panos justified in hounding KVSS?
KVSS has done more for knol than anyone else I know and even much more for this foundation.

4/26 Panos @ KS

Your question is not relevant at all. I never suggested that KVSS is not sufficient to be a knol writer. Everyone who knows how to write is a sufficient knol writer.

I say that KVSS, as the president of the KAF foundation, should set an examle in transparency issues. Instead, he is NOT helping at all in transparency and makes himself a bad example. You can see already 3 votes  in this link concerning transparency issues (I think only registered users can see the votes). KVSS’s denial makes him suspicious and not trustworthy to lead the foundation. He is also acting irresponsible accusing the people who helped us by revealing a major skandal. He had information about Randy and he didn’t inform us. WHY? For all the above reasons I believe that KVSS is an irresponsible KAF director.  If he respected the values of transparency he would answer my questions and he would have post his CV. He is not just a member, he is the  president of the foundation and an academic. He shouldn’t wait for any member to ask him post his CV.  Also, if he respected the values of democracy he would have resigned, since he was never elected by the board of directors or from the members. He was never the knol star in the knol star voting system. Not respecting the values of transparency and the values of democracy is a good reason for someone to be unacceptable in any position in KAF.
As for SK, he is not helping at all in transparency issues. He expect us to trust him, and his friends, without questioning anything and without providing us real evidence about who is who. This behavior is also unacceptable. The Knol Author Foundation is becoming a legal institution and this kind of behavior put all of us at possible risk. We need to take radical actions immediately! SK yeserday started offering me money and now KS is offering wuffies (= virtual money) to PG. A person with half a brain would understand what’s going on here.
I’m not going to continue with interogations. I think we all got the picture about who is who. We know who is transparent and who is not.  I took the answers I needed I’ll make my final proposal. I’ll ask you all to vote.

4/26 KS @ Panos

it’s a big handicap for me to write in english .

so i can’t answer your many statements, as i want to do .
that’s a pity, for there is so much to learn from this situation .
as SK said: in knol there are different titles for your one idea!
our bulletin board and your forum are different titles for your one idea . that’s cool !!!
you wrote: we need votes for everything. this is not a one-man show. 😉 😉
i dont understand this academic crap but i can show you, how simple voting is :

KVSS has proved, that he is an indian prof . is that sufficient for him to be a knol writer ?
chrissy: yes | no, peggy: yes | no, AK: yes | no, DB: yes | no, JMC: yes | no, KM: yes | no, KS: yes, KVSS: yes | no, MMN: yes | no, MS: yes | no; PB: yes | no, PG: yes | no, PP: no, RK: yes | no, SK: yes | no, SpK: yes | no, …

thank you, thank you, thank you so much, thank you, thank you very much, thank you, thank you, thanks
you wrote, that SK has offered you financial help . i think, he wanted to show you, that he is your friend, as he did with each of us (he offered me to pay a trip to new york) . but he himself can better explain this .
you wrote: knol is not build for discussions and votings.
all about the internet there is not a real discussion program (exept the chats) . it is our task here, to make suggestions to knol . the best program in this respect is wiki . knol is wiki like, but knol can do more .
bring the team back to work ! we need millions and billions and trillions of whuffy .
if PB is interested into whuffy, i’ll give him 100 w .

4/26 Panos @ KVSS

Do you know what an academic CV is? You don’t specify dates, and you don’t list all your degrees and all the educational institutions you worked in. If you were not an academic I would accept that. But since you are an academic this is unacceptable! Please take a look at a general CV format here

Please take a look at the following examples
1. Jesus Martin Calvo is KAF director, he is a student (not a professor ) and take a look at his CV . Look at the structure of a typical academic CV.
1. I’m also a student and It’s not a perfect CV but it has an honest details with dates.
Do you know why both Jesus Martin Calvo and me have detailed CVs ? Because no intitution and no working agency would ever accept us If we didn’t file a proper CV? Do you know why? Because without detailed information someone would think that I’m not honest or not professional. I can’t imagine someone beeing an academic, a professor, a Knol organizer and refusing to post an academic CV. It’s unacceptable!!!
The information you post is vague and not transparent. You say you are you are a professor in NITIE. When did you became a professor? Where in the world is NITIE? It’s the first time in my life I read the setence “I’m a member of this faculty” and later on “I’m a professor”. All professors say “I’m a professor holding this position in this very specific subject in this faculty since then”. Also you did not define, are you a full professor? An assistant professor? What does the term “professor” means? I’m feeling embarassed asking all these questions and this is the reason I asked for your academic CV.
I don’t intent to make an interrogation and you are not making our life easier .
KVSS, you happen to be the main “face” of our foundation. I can’t imagine why I had to ask 4 times receiving indirect answers and finally receive this answer. WHY? The question is simple. Do you have an academic CV? How does this attitude help transparency in Knol Author Foundation? I find this attitude unacceptable.
Also, Murry Shohat is one of the 3 respected authors (along with Krishan Maggon and Peter Baskerville) who opened our eyes and revealed Randy’s scandal and co-wrote a method to reveal fraud, the site-metrics. You were informed from Krishan about Randy’s behavior and you covered him with your silence. Instead you tried to make Krishan look bad in our eyes! Your exact words to the directors where “Please keep in mind that Peter, Krishan and Murry became a close knit group and tried many things. They have certain malicious intentions whatever they are.” Now you continue to do the same damage with Murry. This is totally irresponsible and unacceptable! Do you realize that you are one of the leaders of KAF?
Now, you still have the same irresponsible attitue trying to accuse Murry Shohat that he has personal problems and hate other knol authors. Murry is just the investigator and the messanger revealing the fraud. In ancient times they used to chope off the head of the messangers. Should we do the same? I must inform you that Murry mailed me and kindly let me know about his suspicions about some members of KAF. His sayings are also transparent, public, and since now he only HELPED both knol platform and our foundation. KVSS, you are still acting irresponsibly and I found your attitude unacceptable.
we need votes for everything. This is not a one-man show. We need to vote for ALL our decisions. Writing in this page is complicated and tricky. I don’t even have time to edit the html code every time and I don’t expect all members to participate in this complicated way. Knol is not build for discussions and votings.

4/26 KVSS

Congratulations Andreas.

His weekly page views is astonishing 19,000
His total page views crossed 100,000 with a bang.
He informed us in a day he got more than 2,000 views. All the best. We hope more Germans visit the knol. Why don’t you start a bulletin board for German authors and visitors?
This page is not loading properly. We need to remove lot material and post to archives. You can move material anywhere as you feel is right.
 4/26 KS 

@ Panos

about what do you want to make a voting ?
we can do it here .
it’s not a big thing .
allow me to put the faculty list on the end of this page, with a proper label .
then one can click on the label list (see top of this page) to read it .

4/26 KVSS

Mr. Murry Shohat identified and certain knol authors as having done inappropriate actions and put a question as a comment on the plagiarism knol of knol help. I gave the following reply and asserted that every author blocked by knol will be removed from the membership of this association as and when the association comes to know about it. Presently the association knols are not in update mode as Sajid Khan is yet to take control of them.

I gave the following reply to the comment:
Mr. Murry Shohat

A voluntary association of online writers is a voluntary association. Its objectives are to work for growth of knol platform and for protection of authors’ rights. It did some work for growth of knol platform. It has not done any for protecting the rights of authors. If the knol platform management finds certain authors are not doing appropriate things, they take the necessary action. Association supports the knol platform management in such actions. May be when the association feels, the management is not doing the right thing they may protest.
I hope you are doing certain activities today as a fellow author to improve things on knol. May be you got a special assignment to do it. I do not know. But in whatever capacity you are doing it, there is no reason to call for dissolution of association. If somebody is not a knol author and declared so by the knol management, the same declaration will be done by the association.
I am not surprised at your findings. Such things will be there and that is why policies are framed and administration of policies is there. I am more surprised at your subsequent actions and open calls.
You seem to be hating many amateur authors who are either the skeleton or the muscles of the online publishing platforms of today. Yes please set the standards to the extent you can and help the knol administration to the extent you can. But give respect to others also for what they have done. You may go on investigating and expose more authors and block them from knol. Do it. It may be good for knol. That is why knol management is backing you. Use the backing and do some good work. But knol author size may go up to 50,000 by year end.
Don’t become a person who hates other authors.


4/26 KVSS

Leadership Tussle: It all started from there. Knol Author Foundation has done its job. To support knol platform. When many people said buzz about knol is not there, this foundation showed to the world there is a committed group of knol authors. The foundation is not even three months old, but some people feel that we should not allow some persons credit for the initiative, they have taken. Why in the history of knol, they should get a name? But History is history. Sajid Khan has registered this foundation. He has registered the foundation.

About me and my current job and qualification my knol bio says at the top.

I am a faculty member in National Institute of Industrial Engineering (NITIE).

I did post graduation in industrial engineering and did the doctoral research work in capital markets.
If my specific designation is required, I am a professor. The articles that google scholar has showed up also say so.
The entry is at least this old
Has anybody got a doubt?
Yes, somebody’s simple question is still not answered? May be.
I can give the entire faculty list of NITIE here from the website

Faculty List



 Dr.S.D. AWALE (Ph.D)


Group Coordinator – Dr .N. Sambandam Professor


 Shri N. Narayanan (Fellow, NITIE), Professor  “on Lien”

  Smt. Sadhna Ghosh (Fellow, NITIE), Professor

 Shir H.V. Bhasin (Fellow NITIE), Professor

 Dr. L. Ganapathy (Ph.D.), Professor

 Dr. Dinesh Seth (Ph.D.) Assoc. Professor 

 Shri V.B. Khanapuri , (Fellow, NITIE), Assoc. Professor

 Dr. Sanjay Sharma (Ph.D), Assoc. Professor

 Dr. R.W. Limje , (Ph.D.) Asst. Professor

 Dr. Sachin. S. Kamble (Ph.D.), Asst. Professor

 Dr. K. Maddulety , (Ph.D), Asst. Professor 

 Dr. Rakesh Verma , (Ph.D.) Asst. Professor


Group Coordinator – Smt. Neelima S. Naik , (Fellow, NITIE), Professor

 Dr. Amitabha De , (Ph.D.), Professor 

 Mrs. Seema Unnikrishnan (Fellow, NITIE), Assoc. Professor

 Dr. S. Murthy , (Ph.D.), Assoc. Professor

 Dr. Shirish Sangle , (Ph.D), Assoc. Professor

 Dr. D.M. Bavadekar , (M.B.B.S), Asst. Professor

 Dr. Suman Mukhopadhyay , (Ph.D), Asst. Professor

 Dr. Rauf Iqbal( Ph. D.), Assistant Professor

Group Coordinator – Shri A.D. Raoot , (Fellow, NITIE), Professor

 Shri R. Ramaswamy , (Fellow, NITIE), Professor

 Dr. S.B. Hiremath , (Ph.D.), Professor

 Dr. Manoj Kumar Jha , (Ph.D.), Assoc. Professor

 Smt. Hema Date , (Fellow, NITIE), Assoc. Professor

 Dr. (Mrs.) Purnima S. Sangle , (Ph.D.), Assoc. Professor

 Shri P.K. Biswas , Asst. Professor

Group Coordinator – Dr. Mani K. Madala , (Ph.D.), Professor

 Dr. G. Srinivasan , (Ph.D.), Professor

 Dr. D.S. Hegde , (Ph.D.), Professor

 Dr. D.K. Srivastava , (Ph.D.), Professor

 Dr. S.K. Nair , (Ph.D), Professor

 Dr. B.M. Ghodeswar , (Ph.D.), Professor

 Dr. K.V.S.S. Narayana Rao , (Ph.D.), Professor

 Dr. O.B. Sayeed , (Ph.D.), Professor

 Dr. T. Prasad , (Ph.D.), Assoc. Professor

 Dr. (Mrs.) Vijaya Gupta , (Ph.D), Assoc. Professor

 Dr. M. Venkateswarlu . (Ph.D.), Assoc. Professor

 Dr. S.M. Dhume , (Ph.D.), Assoc. Professor

 Smt. Rekha D. Chikhalkar , Asst. Professor

  Dr. Sanjeev Verma , (Ph.D.), Asst. Professor  

 Dr. Ranjan Chaudhuri (Ph.D.),Asst. Professor,

 Dr. Mehta Nikhil  K. (Ph. D.)Assistant Professor

Professor In-Charge of Training, Placement and Programme Development

Shri Ashok.K. Pundir ,(Fellow, NITIE),  Associate Professor


Some of them already registed themselves as knol authors. Over a period of time, I hope all will become knol authors. 


I keep telling Sajid Khan, that we may think we are logically right, but many may not accept. They are also scientists and have a similar brain as ours. We cannot criticize them. They will accept our idea only when they want to accept.
Yesterday, I noticed in googleindia blog the announcement of knol cooking knol contest. Recently google employed an internet bus to market internet among the people of Tamil Nadu. They said some more such bus tours will be there. Hope they do one such campaign when the cooking knol contest is on. That will give both readers to the knols as well as writers.

.< board 2009


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