board 2009 (january I)

messages, which have the contents to be a sub-knol :


2009-01-01 KVSS

Happy New Year Greetings to all visitors.
Visit

KNOL QUESTION AND ANSWER BOARD BOARD

Ask Your Questions – Answer Other’s Questions
Super Knol List of December

2009 SK @ KVSS & KS and all knol bulletin board authors, knol help team and visitors

A very happy, healthy and prosperous new year to each and every one of you.
I wish you and all your family and friends the best of life.

2009-01-01 SK@ All knollers, knol help team and visitors

please support the following ‘petition’ knol:
This is a petition to the world leaders to make wisdom education compulsory from preK-12 and beyond. Dear reader please support this petition.

2009-01-01 The Judge

please see : 2009-01-01 The Judge (search engine performance)

2009-01-02 KVSS

Mr. Judge, thank you for your thoughts. Your encyclopedia idea is very good. I also made number of directories and tried to make one main directory. But still the organization is not proper

I keep requesting Mr. Sajid Khan to orgaize his knols. I hope Mr. Judge’s suggestion will motivate Mr. Sajid to undertake the task of classifying his writing and put them into major parts.

Mr. Kemper gave a link that shows visitors to knol during the last four months. The number is around 120,000 per month. Very low figure. But it is not surprising. Unless there are many knollers whose monthly visit numbers are in six digits, how does knol as a whole gets numbers. We need more visits per knoller and also we require more knollers.

Each existing knoller has to do some selling of his knols in his community of relatives, friends and colleagues and also in various online communities. Similarly he has to encourage his friends to become knollers.
Is knol having good content. Yes slowly it is developing. I liked the material on dogs.
Hunting Dog Knowledge Center

2009-01-03 KVSS

I opened a new knol
Knollers – Knol Authors – Subject Classification
This knol could be of help in supporting knol question and answer board.
I plan to have full 10 coauthors for the question and answer board. I am now inviting 7 professors from my institute to be coauthors. Sajid Khan and Schwartz will be the 9th and 10th authors.
Has any body seen the visitor statistics from the quantstats site that was mentioned by Kemper in the bulletin board. What are your comments?

2009-01-03 KVSS

I am happy to see Kemper’s knol Knolympics on top five knols of the day on knol home page. Authors have to take more interest in proposing good knols of a month and in selecting best knols or super knols of a month. There has to be competition among authors to write good knols, identify good knols and recommend good knols to readers and visitors.

I would say to begin with if we say a knol is a superknol in knolympics, it has to go into top five recommended knols and should get at least 25,000 page views in a month. Can we plan for it and do it? We as an author community have to aspire for more on the basis of our quality of writing and innovative ways of marketing, selling and publicity.

Two more new knols from me today.

2009-01-03 KS @ The Judge

nice system . this is similar to bulletin board .

2009-01-03 SK @ Prof. and KS

Please do not expect any technical stuff from me on this board. I am not even sure how I can organize my knols as the Prof. wants me to do.

My new knols:

2009-01-04 KVSS

Sajidji, you don’t have do any technical stuff. Make some categories and place some of the knols into each category. They could be like, Wisdom – Theory, Emotional Intelligence – Theory, Wisdom Education, Education for Emotional Intelligence, Wisdom -Wise Statements and Stories from Religious Books, etc. That will make navigation of your knols easy. It will also provide certain linkages between knols and facilitates the search engine to show related knols more accurately etc.
Today I initiated number of knols on management of political party. Mostly I identified various internet resources and as I just advised Mr. Sajid Khan, I first started with the main knol. In that knol, I listed the knols I wanted to develop and then went on opening each knol. Even though I may not be able to develop them adequately immediately, the framework will be useful and if some knol author or visitor enriches it, it will be very good addition in the mean time. There are four proposals now in the knolympics good knol list. Can any recent knol of Judge go into it. May be I have to go to Judge’s bio knol and ask him to propose some.

For inviting co-authors, it has to be sufficient if we mention a knol author name. Finding the gmail account is a tedious process. Knol Help is to be informed of our need.

2009-01-04 KS

@ KVSS and SK
please give me your email address and tell me how i can invite you as co-authors
@ Judge
please give me the permission to make “2009-01-01 The Judge” a sub-knoll and link to it at the top of this page (hi prof, sounds familiar ?) .

2009-01-04 The Judge

@ KS
Placing my message as a sub-knol at the top of this page is fine with me.
KVSS wrote to me about formal knol author foundation or association coming from the US. Sounds like a good idea. Any ideas how we go about it? Maybe someone at Google will see this message and give us a suggestion.

2009-01-04 SK @ The Judge & The Prof.

We have to form a legal non profit organization by filing with the city, state and the IRS. To own and run a non profit we must get a 503 1 (C) number. This will be the foundation’s tax ID number. Where donations will become deductible. I have a tax write off foundation called The 4th R Foundation. Last year I spent over 21,000.00 of my own money and I got a tax deduction for this from the IRS. A lawyer helped me with all the paper work for 500 dollars. On the internet there are many companies that will do this for under two hundred dollars.

Also I think I have a good template for our Knol Authors Foundation. We can take my ‘selfmasteryclub.com’ home page and make needed changes to start right away.

Lets first decide all those who will be part of this foundation. As with any organization we need a President, an Executive Director, Board of Directors, Secretary etc. Personally I think the top position should go to the Professor and The Judge. One can be President and the other can be Executive Director.

Lets just start with a group of founders. Please announce the list of founders here and I will start the paper work.

Once you have all of the names I can get the paper work done. Before filing I will need to have the signatures of each person on the official application. Maybe there is a way we can do it without actual signing, other wise we will mail it around. I think I have already registered some knol related name in NYC, I will check. If you all are ready then you can leave the paper work to me. Please just put all the names with designations on this board and I will start the paper work.

Also on another note I had requested you to join my Wisdom Express. For now all I want to do is announce 10 wisdom stars for 2008. Maybe we can just name one – President elect Obama. Though I have met him a few times I don’t have a chance to contact him. But once we declare him as the wisdom star I have other contacts where we can probably get to present the wisdom star personally to President elect Obama. I don’t mind changing the name of the award to Knol Star. What do you feel?

2009-01-04 KVSS

More serious discussion on knol authors foundation. Great going. I am sure some body from knol administration will cooperate. All the executive positions have to be from USA initially to take care of documentation issues etc without much hassles. Non US persons can be committee members who need not sign any documents immediately. In future, changes can be made depending on the requirements. Kevin Spaulding is from California, maybe he is close to Google headquaters for personal contact.

We require content leaders with scope orientation in knol. What I mean by content leader is an author who can get say 500,000 visits to his articles by setting up his own site say a blog. Scope orientation comes when he believes by posting those articles on knol, which is a multi author-subject site, he will get 1,500,000 visits per month. But to generate such viewership, the content leader has to develop his co-authors also. Co-authors are many and many of them can be in niche areas, but they bring additional visitors to the platform and some of them visit the content leader’s articles. Such content leaders will be willing to address knol authors’ conferences and write knols explaining how to write good knols and how to communicate about good knols to relevant communities of the author. Content leaders are yet to emerge on knol. Author Foundation can be a catalyst in energizing the knol authors.

2009-01-04 SK @ The Prof.

You are the driving force behind this Knol Foundation. We can put you up as The Founder. The Judge can be the President. Please suggest some names, we definitely need KS and I can start the paper work. I have been talking to the top guy at Knol and he is very happy with your work. To start this foundation we don’t need google for now.
My new knol: The bible is the perfect scientific code to the guide of life.

2009-01-04 KS @ The Judge

done (see above) . in the long run we can remove the original posting below ?

do you know refer(r)ers ? google may show in the header or on the bottom of each page the pages which link to this page .
imagine a knol with the name of a year, so all knols which use this name are shown on this knol (hi AK, sounds familiar?)

as to the knol star system of SK, there is a corresponding knol star system .
if we have enough votes, then there is a world president 🙂

2009-01-05 KVSS @ SK

You can contact Manuel Menendez of collaborative books. His name in on our knoller hall of fame. How many people are required to start the initiative. May be we write on five, six relevant knols our intention to start the foundation, and some authors may contact us. Mr. McNally may suggest one or two names. I think we should plan for big membership in due course of time of around 5000 members. May be each can pay say $10 annually from their adsense earnings as and when they earn it. May be the foundation can have an understanding with the adsense to collect this money on confirmation and instructions from the concerned knol authors. Cooperation of google administration right from beginning will make some these arrangements more easy.

I also suggested earlier that common knols like the bulletin board, competition knols etc. can be organized under the foundation and adsense earnings can go to the foundation. Foundation works for promoting knol as a platform, promoting content development by organizing knol author conferences and knol writing competitions, and protects authors rights, revenues and recognition.

Definitely good amount of thinking and preparation need to go into the initiative. Some personal contact and meetings may have to take place in US to get a strong commitment to the cause by a team of people. Let us keep moving forward.

2009-01-05 KS @ KVSS and SK

please give me the permission to make “2009-01-01 (superknol list)” and “2009-01-05 (our team) a sub-knoll and link to it at the top .

as to make money look google-gold .

2009-01-05 The Judge @ KVSS, SK and KS

Go to Knol Author Foundation and see what you think about this. I think we need a main page that states our goals.

2009-01-05 SK @ The Judge, The Prof. and KS

This is a good start. Lets each one of us approach a few knol authors through their knol comment space and then those who agree to join we create the foundation team. As soon as we have the minimum I will start the paper work. The template can be similar to my 4th R Foundation cover page.
Please go to selfmasteryclub.com to see what I have as the cover page and we can improve from there. I do not know, maybe we do not need too many people. I will find out. Lets all of us write the goals and then we make one page.

2009-01-05 KS @ The Judge

looks great 😉
i think we are all proud of you !
my goal is that we become a point of intersection between google and the knol authors .

2009-01-05 SK @ KS

Our team sub knol that you made is my 4th R Foundation team I offered it as a template for our knol foundation. I shared it to show how the knol Foundation team will look like. As per our Judge’s suggestion our team will be something like this:
Presisent: The Prof.
Executive Director: The Judge
Secretary: KS
Treasurer: SK
Board of Directors:
Other knol authors.
Also our cover page for the knol foundation can be similar to my cover page for selfmasteryclub.com. It cost me a lot of money to make this cover page. We can use it as a template for our foundation. I would like to propose to make my selfmasteryclub.com as a sub project of our knol authors foundation.
please see : selfmasteryclub.com as example

2009-01-06 KVSS

Things are moving with speed.
One of the objectives of the foundation has to be understanding copy right laws and making authors aware of them. Many of us are amateurs and we do not have any understanding of laws. We are not making any real money from this activitity. Still people will associate us with commercial interest. So the foundation has to make an effort first to understand the law and then to educate its members first on the major theme of the law and then on its details.
@ KS
See if the subknols could be at the place where the message was written. Or we have to give a title like important messages so that visitors may go those sub-knols.

2009-01-06 KS @ KVSS

i made an example right at the bottom . do you mean like this ?

2009-01-06 AK

Which goals do you want to have in the Knol Author Foundation? I want to have a powerfull lobby for internet-authors. Jimbo Wales from Wikipedia says, Wikipedia-Authors should not become money, because to write articles in wikipedia is only a hobby, it’s like playing soccer or basketball at the weekend. But this “basketball-player” have made an encyclopedia with a worth of billions of dollar. So I’m not a weekend-basketball-player. I’m an internet-author. In Germany we have a new project called METIS. Internet-Publisher and Authors get money from this project. Here’s an article (only in German language, sorry). For internet-articles with more then 1800 characters and 3000 sessions in one year you get 40,- € for each article. To fight for such things I want to have a group of internet-authors and for the rights for internet-authors. Is this also a goal for the Knol Author Foundation?
(More Information in German language: Texte im Internet / METIS)
Regards
Andreas Kemper

2009-01-06 SK @ Prof. & AK

Both your goals can become sub-goals of the foundation. As we go along more people will join us and then we can have sub groups who can be in charge of specific agendas. The Prof. for now can partly focus on his interest of copy right laws. AK can focus on a powerful lobby for us. I would like to focus on making mankind emotionally super normal. Lets each one of us including The Judge and KS, write one short paragraph representing our interest so we can start the cover page. Eventually I want a foundation that will work like a combination of Sim city and eBay. Where fellow members can have our lobby to push the agenda of life for one and all as well as be able to help each other in any way we can. We must be able to help our members professionally as well as personally.

2009-01-06 KS

interesting discussion . the more people join in, the more views we have .
(@ AK : building a group is like building a category ;))
let’s go step by step . till now, we have two categories :

  • personal (SK, KS)
  • professional (AK, The Prof.)

now it would be interesting to hear the judge !

2009-01-06 SK

Our Team

President……………………………………………………………………………Prof. Narayana Rao KVSS

Executive Director………………………………………………………………………………..The Judge

Secretary…………………………………………………………………………………….Kalle Schwarz

Treasurer……………………………………………………………………………………….Sajid Khan

Technology Director…………………………………………………………………………..Andreas Kemper

———— Board of Directors ————.

Khuddadad Azara?

Kevin Spaulding?

Sara ? (If KS does not object)

Even, Knol Help?

@ The Prof., The Judge, KS and AK

Please propose your own knol authors who you want on our team:

2009-01-07 KVSS

See if Chris Lemens an attorney can be contacted. He is not active these days. But initial burst of knols were good. He came up with concept of legal knol certification. Khuddada Azara and Kevin are to be contacted. I wrote a comment on Kevin’s knol. He said at that time he will do his bit for the progress of knol. One more comment on his knol by a different person inviting him to bulletin board may be required.
@ KS
I sent an invitation for joining as coauthor for my question board knol. Did you receive it?
@ AK
I sent a mail to you regarding coauthorship for my knol. did you receive the mail. My mail id is kvssnrao50@gmail.com
@ SK
Can you send you mail id for inviting you as a coauthor. Coauthorship is a good arrangement when you want to know somebody to be aware of the activity on the knol.All coauthors get alerts when something happens on the knol. I want to have full set of coauthors for question board knol.>br>

2009-01-07 The Judge @ team members

If we would become a non-profit foundation, what would be the reason we would give authors to donate money? If we don’t have an agenda set up, why would anyone be willing to donate? If they donate, will this money be used to donate to charities the directors vote to send it to?

My interest would be setting up and maintaining the paperwork of a non-profit foundation. That would include setting up and voting on where donations would go to.

Or are we going to be paying money to have authors write articles? Do you think anyone would donate to that?

We need a fifth founding member to be a tie breaker on any votes we may take to decide on issues.
@ Kevin and Andreas – I invite you to become founding members.

What are everyones views on this?

I would investigate forming a non-profit if we vote to do this.

2009-01-07 KVSS@ Team members

In due course of time, the foundation will have expenses. It is a non-profit foundation but it will have expenses. Authors have to contribute for the maintenance of foundation. Foundation has to maintain some knols, has to organize some author conferences, and has to draft some regulations and guidelines, has to interact with google knol team, may have to do some press conferences, and may even have to defend itself in courts of law. So we need to plan for annual revenue to the foundation.

2009-01-07 AK @ Team members

Okay I’m proud to be a founding member of this foundation 😉 I want to work for authors rights in the field of “copyright collectives” and “open content”. I see Wikipedia-Authors not as rivals and I want to work with them together and also with other Internet-Authors to make them and there work stronger. It’s essential for our world to have good and open content and it’s essential for the producents of this free knowledge to become credits (more than a handshake!) for their work. Maybe the new METIS-project in Germany is a good way. But thats not all. It’s essential to work against plagiarism.
Andreas

2009-01-07 KS @ team members

as to voting :
one of the ten best sentences i’ve heard in my life was:
“was nützen uns überstimmte und unzufriedene leute” (tvind-gruppe)
what do overruled and disaffected people help us .
if we can’t unite, we are not a group, but two or more groups .
if unification needs too much time, then our (voted) knol-star may decide .
hi andreas, i’m happy to see you in the group .

2009-01-07 SK @ Team Members

@ AK
I agree with AK, we have to work with all Internet authors and try to help who ever deserves our support. And we will work against plagiarism.
@ Prof.
Lets start the foundation. I think we have enough members. If you all approve I can submit the paper work by next week. I will include in the purpose of the foundation AK’s and your suggestions. I will need the foundation’s aims feedback from the Judge and KS.
The reason for having a nonprofit organization is to make it clear to the authorities etc. that this is a selfless organization that will spread knowledge and that will be supportive of its own members. As you said we will have expenses. In America people donate willingly if they can get a tax write off. As a non profit we can give tax write offs. For now we do not need any money but if this foundation takes off then we need to set up an office with some staff. If in case we become big then we can think of expanding into charity work. For now lets just keep it on knol with no expenses.
As The Judge said we need an agenda. Each member please write one page each on the aims of this foundation. We also need about 6 lines each for the cover page.

I think we have enough knols amongst us that we can produce a few books. I am working on my first book which I am calling, ‘My first 100 knols’. We can also publish a joint knol book. If it takes off we can continue publishing a series. Parts of the proceeds we can donate to the foundation.

2009-01-07 Michael McNally

Hi Knollers. The knol team is back from vacation. Expect us to deploy a new version in mid-January, with more work on Knol Templates, new languages supported in the Knol user interface, and the long awaiting “knol categories” feature, to give a better way to browse knols instead of the “bag of knols.”

We have brought the Knol Holidays promotion to a close, but we are looking forward to having additional thematic promotions where we invite authors to write on a varying set of topics over time.

Please feel free to contact us with feature requests and bug reports on one of the pages listed here: Learn more about Knol. We are working our way through a large set of ideas for improving Knol — and the community’s feedback is useful and appreciated, even if we cannot always act promptly on every part of.

If you are a highly-active knol author, I am interested in having a certain number of you willing and able to contact the knol team via Gmail Chat so that we can get fast turnaround on major issues such as: “the site is down”, or “my knols all vanished”, or “a popular author got flagged”. Contact knolhelp@gmail.com.

Regarding: a “Knol Authors Foundation”, always be sure to always make clear that whatever group you form is not affiliated with or officially endorsed by Google.

The Judge’s comments about using internal and external links to improve the findability / page rank of your knols are generally quite good.

We are interested in adding explicit support in the interface for “Knol Books” or “Knol Collections”, and possibly separately featuring them on the home page. Feedback on the idea is welcomed.

2009-01-07 KS @ knol team

i translated one of my knols with the help of http://translate.google.com/ .
now i found a knol with my profile in english and with all my knols translated .
if i click on them, i always get the message : an error is ocurred

2009-01-07 Michael McNally

KS, here is the problem.
Translate.google.com does not actually modify the knol you are translating. Instead, what it does as act as a proxy server that rewrites the page dynamically. In the process of doing so, it also rewrites all of the hyperlinks inside the document so that they point back to a special URL which is really just translate.google.com again with the destination page passed as a query parameter. When you navigate through the link to the destination knol page, translate.google.com again rewrites that destination.

Once the translated page appears in your browser, we have Javascript that tries to call back to the knol server to fill in a few “missing pieces” of the page (your name in the sign-in bar on the top of the page, and a few other things.) These call-backs fail because knol.google.com thinks requests coming from a page served by translate.google.com are invalid and rejects them as a potential security breech. The XHRs from the translated page run afoul of the “same domain” policy. We can investigate ways to fix this, however in the mean time, here is a manual work-around:

Use translate.google.com to rewrite the page, and ignore the error popup. Then, select the translated content. Paste it into a newly created knol (repeat for Title, Subtitle, Summary, then main text, then each reference). Save it. Go through each of the links and fix them so that they all point to either their original destination (instead of proxying through translate.google.com) OR to a translation of their destination (by applying this procedure recursively.)

This procedure is laborious, but we hope to automate much of it in future releases.

2009-01-08 KVSS

Knol platform team is back in action.
Knol author team is taking shape. Knol collections/books is a good idea. Author teams have to come out in various subject areas to identify good knols which can be assembled into collections and presented to the visitors. Knol author foundation can deliberate on visitors/ needs and the content strategy and the resulting visitor response. while author foundation has no official connection with google, and has no endorsement from google, it expects cooperations from google as an association representing authors. Google knol’s content strategy has to be understood by some body and the details have to be worked out and communicated to multitude of authors. So far Knol has taken a position that it is basically a technology provider and did not create any separate content promoting group in knol team. In the future also for some years, google may not create a content team for knol. It does not have a content team for blogger. Knol author foundation will fill that void by forming a content team. It expects more frequent exchange of ideas with the google knol technology and administration team.
I am trying to start writing a few points about objectives and programmes of foundation.
This could be modified and expanded by all team members to finalize the list and convert it into a legally acceptable document
please see : Knol Author Foundation (aims and programmes)

2009-01-08 AK @ KVSS

Is it possible to make a sub-knol “Aims (Objectives) and Programmes of Knol Author Foundation”? I want to have some aims like “cooperate with other internet-authors”, “we don’t see other internet-authors as rivals”.
-> okay I made a suggestion in the comment at Author Knol Foundation.
Best Regards Andreas

2009-01-08 SK @Judge

Sir, you did a better job than any professional lawyer I know of explaining the aims of the foundation.
We now have enough information to go ahead with the legal process. Do you want to do that also or do you want me to do the legal work. Please let me know.
In case you want to do it yourself then all the necessary information for non-profits is available at IRS.gov.

2009-01-08 The Judge @ Founding Members

I have posted a link above to Author Knol Foundation. In it our Aims (Objectives) and Programmes of Knol Author Foundation are listed, along with a link back to this page.

I think a collection of “knol books” and “knol collections” interfaced and possibly featured on the home page as mentioned by google leader Michael McNally would really help in our efforts.

2009-01-08 KS @ MMN

thank you very much for your prompt answering .
in the long run it seems not to be a bug, but a feature 😉

2009-01-08 AK

Here’s a new article to organize assistance for Knol-Authors who are not familiar with HTML or Knol-Design. The idea: if you have basic HTML-knowledge you can assist Knol-Authors and receive Knol-Translation-Points.

http://knol.google.com/k/andreas-kemper/-/8bgikaqot3ts/205#view

My English isn’t perfect, so please have a look for horrible mistakes 😉

Andreas

2009-01-08 KS @ AK

interesting ! do you know my knol html sand box? joined it to your page .
here a little tip, if you don’t find a blank line (break) above 😉
click the html button . find the first <hr> (left hand) . insert a <br> after it . click “update” .

2009-01-08 SK @ Our Team

I don’t know how my name got switched to medium 1776. Medium 1776, I want to use to write a series inspired by The Judge. Can you help me get my name back in the contributors.

2009-01-08 KS @ SK

i made a copy, then a roll back to the version before medium 1776, then an insert of the copy . but medium 1776 is still there .
i can block this user . but i’m not shure if your SK-profile is then blocked too . perhaps this is a case for the knol team .

2009-01-09 Judge @ Founders

A question was brought up in a comment on the Knol Author Foundation page, about open collaboration.

The Knol Author Foundation page was meant to be a short description of the founders, our objectives, and have a link to a page each one of the founders sets up to work on their own personal objectives. With an open collaboration anyone could write anything at anytime.
An open collaboration is good for other pages, but I think our foundation page should be set up with a moderated collaboration. Other founders, what are your views?

From the foundation page could be links describing other areas of the foundation. Any one of the words under aim and objectives of the foundation could become a link to a page that would go into a description about that part of the foundation.

I want this page to be direct and to the point, with links to other pages going into more depth.

Members, please respond, we are a team.

2009-01-09 SK @Founders

I agree with The Judge the foundation page should be a moderated collaboration page.
@ The Judge.
Dear Sir, are you starting the legal process or should I start? Also I will need real names if I am starting the process. Please inform. You can call me at 212 421 4848.

2009-01-09 KVSS

Foundation page – moderated collaboration is the right thing. Judge already indicated that any comments can be written on the bulletin board.

I request our team members to think of more objectives and programs to add to the list. Taking care of ethical issues is one more objectives we need to add.

Mr. Kemper could be designated as Director – Membership. We need to inform and approach all knol authors to become members of the foundation. So we need a person who does it on behalf of the foundation. We need to open a knol account under the name knol author foundation and open common knols under that name. We have to create an adsense account also. May be we can do them after legal process only.

2009-01-09 KS

i didn’t propose to make foundation page open collaboration .
there is a link to here and here is a link to there . that will do for the beginning .
my point was “decision making” . you just gave me an example .
should this be a majority decision without me ? then without me .
you see, this doesn’t work 😉
knol is a new world . there will be “united groups” but not majority-decision groups . never .
what do overruled and disaffected people help us ?

2009-01-09 AK@KVSS

I can do the job (inform Knol Authors about Membership) but my first aim is to contact other internet-authors and to work with them together.

2009-01-09 AK

KTPs as Price for Knol of the Month?
Knol Translation Points are credits of a virtual exchange trading system.
http://knol.google.com/k/andreas-kemper/knol-translation/8bgikaqot3ts/55#Knol_Translation_Points
My suggestion is:
The gold-winner of Knol of the Month gets 3 x the characters of his Knol in KTPs
The silver-winner gets 2x the characters of his Knol in KTPs
The bronce-winner gets 1x the characters of his Knol in KTPs
So it’s possible for the winners to let translate their Knol in other languages.
What do you think about this suggestion and the virtual exchange trading system KTPS?
Andreas

2009-01-09 The Judge@ AK

What do you want your title to be. Author Director? Membership Director?

The Judge @ Members

It sounds like the majority rules on keeping the Foundation page moderated for now.
AK-your knol of the month trading system sounds good to me.
KVSS-I think it would be best to wait until we are set up as a non-profit before we set up adsense. There are several things to decide when we set that up.
KS-You are correct. Majority decisions should be made with the five founders.
SK-You could head the legal process of a non-profit if you would like. You already have experience with your foundation. I will help in any way I can if you need me to.

It is good that our founding members come from different parts of the world. Hopefully some of our board of directors will represent other areas of the world.

I am proud to be a member of the team and I think this is the start of a wonderful idea. Most of all I would like to thank the Professor for inviting me to express my ideas through a comment on my home page.

2009-01-09 AK@ The Judge

Author Director is okay.

2009-01-09 JMC @ Members

Hello all, thanks to AK and his twitter I see such a great idea you all made “creating” a Foundation and of course I would like to help in whatever I can and you allow me to. I am highly interested in the communication between authors and readers. How a potential reader can reach to the information he/she is looking for, and how could be this information specificly a knol. How a knol can be written and shown to encourage people to read it. Semantic search in looking for cientifical information is also what I would like to investigate more. Of course, I am willing to develope iniciatives in Spanish. I can also help in law or economic issues due to my background. I am very interested in how universities and think tanks could collaborate with Knol, having thought a lot about it, and I am starting to try it in my University, it is a hard and slow proccess but I am sure sooner or later there will be in Knol an amount of articles written by professors from my University. Although I have few time to spend in Knol, I am very excited with your ideas, so if you want another brain for your wisdom council, here I am, contact me whenever you want, anyway I’ll try to be updated.

Thank you all for sharing your passion and drive

2009-01-09 AK @ JMC

Hi Jesus Martin Calvo
I’m very happy to see you on this board and I want you to see as a member of our Foundation. Maybe as a founding member if you want? Because you have done a lot for the Knol-Community in the past. Prof, Judge, SK and KS – what do you think?

2009-01-09 Judge @ Members

It is good to see another knoler interested. Welcome JMC.
I would like to welcome JMC as another founding member.
I have a proposal to make. What do you think if we limit our founders to seven members. We could then always have a tie breaker on any voting. We could then form a board of directors for the rest of our governing board.
So I make a motion that we set our founding board to seven members, and invite JMC as a founder.

2009-01-09 SK @ Judge

How about Vice President and Executive Director? The Executive Director is the over all hands on in charge. You will have the final say on how to run the day to day activities. Vice President sounds too weak a position given your talents. I second your motion on both counts.
@ Members
I will try to start the legal process next week. For the registration the law requires the name and address of each member. You can email me at sajidalikhan2@gmail.com or call me at 212 421 4848 (day time). The current information is enough for local and state registration but for the IRS I will need a more detailed description of the aims. Please post one page each of your sub aims.

2009-01-10 KVSS@KS

Unity of the group and decision making

I am reading management texts frequently these days to write my management knowledge revision knols. Sometime back I came across the issue regarding group discussions and decision making. There can be heated discussions sometimes in a group. But at the end, there has to be a ritual to bring back the group to normal relations. We as a team are united always. Some of our ideas may or may not be accepted and implemented by others immediately. But let us take it in our stride and maintain our team. Let us declare, we are a team at the start of every day and we are a team at the end of every day. There can be ideas, discussions and arguments about the logic and consequences and some actions arise out of it. But our personal regard, appreciation for each other and mutual relations need to be renewed and strengthened every day.

Bulletin board on knol home page.
That’s an exciting development. I am sure when we move bulletin board at some point of time to knol author foundation banner, we will get terrific participation from visitors and authors. Even now page views are increasing every day.

2009-01-10 SK@ Our Team

I just noticed that Dr. Deepak Chopra has started knolling. I have approached him to join our foundation if it is OK with all of you.

2009-01-10 KVSS

I published a knol opened long ago but was in unpublished stage.
Groups – Group Dynamics
http://knol.google.com/k/narayana-rao-kvss/groups/2utb2lsm2k7a/166#view
May have some relevance to our current activity.
@SK
It is nice that you are scanning knols and knol authors and expanding foundation membership. Welcome to Doctor Deepak Chopra. Welcome to Martin Calvo.

We need to reach 5000 asap. But we have to develop membership process. May be we shall open a knol and ask people to write their name and link to their bio in it.

2009-01-10 SK

@ AMERICA AND THE WORLD
CONGRATULATIONS ON THE DAWN OF A NEW ERA; SOON WISDOM WILL BE LIVING IN AND RULING FROM THE WHITE HOUSE!!!
@Prof. I read your groups knol. To study group dynamics is very essential. Actually we can teach self mastery/wisdom to groups and countries.

2009-01-10 Judge

Since AK, KVSS and myself have welcomed JMC in as a founder, it looks like we have a group of six. Does a group of seven founders form our team? I vote to make it seven. The other five of us need to vote if that is what we should do.

Welcome to our team Jesus Martin Calvo.

2009-01-10 SK

I have invited and am hoping that Dr. Depak Chopra will agree to join our team of founders. I second your vote to make it seven. I also propose that after the seventh member this foundation team is not taking on any more founding members.

2009-01-10 PG

I find this foundation project quite ambitious.
I’m enthusiastic about its goal to help knollers make great articles so as to develop the general knol audience, as long as it helps them to be creative and to bring real knowledge, without over regulating their work.
I give my thanks to KVSS for inviting me to become a member which I heartily accept if the group agrees.
BTW, I see one of the issue debated here is translation. I wrote my knols in (bad) English as the universal llanguage, but now I have to make the effort to translate some of them in …my mother tongue (French) 😉

2009-01-10 JMC @ Members

Dear all, thank you for your offer, I feel very grateful to all of you and happy to become a founder member. I agree in not to over regulate (PG, I am also a lover of European Integration, so let’s avoid over regulation such in EU). I also agree with KVSS about group dynamics, I think this one will be a very cohesive group, I feel it. I hope to deserve my position as founder and I will work hard for it, I feel very proud of it, thank you very much. I suggest to create a “semi-closed” Group in Google or a forum to develop our ideas in a easier way.

@SK could you specify what do you need?

2009-01-10 SK

I need the names and addresses of all founding members for now. So far only The Judge and AK have emailed me their information (I have all the names except the real name of KS?). Later I will need a page explaining each members specific aims. My email is sajidalikhan2@gmail.com. My daytime phone # is 212 421 4848.

2009-01-10 KS @ The Group

i can do more for the group, if a am an ordinary member . please swap the pictures of JMC and me, so that he can do my job . put my picture beneath AK because he is my speaker in your group .
so this may be a pattern to a structure of 5, 6 or 7 groups and their speakers in your group .
each newbie can elect the group, it want to be .
we can make decisions by voting . but not by majority . if only one vote is different from the others, then we may ask our knol star to decide the case . we can vote the knol star here .

2009-01-10 Judge @ The Group

I have set up a forum and chatroom. Go to Knol Author Foundation Forum and Chatroom. You will need to register to post and chat. Once the founding members have posted I need to give you a password for two categories that will only be accessible by the seven founders.

I would welcome Peter Greenfinch as the seventh founder. I am not sure what KS means by making a decision by voting, not by majority? See below.

@ JMC, that is a great idea for a forum. I will set one up for the Foundation. We can have certain areas that will be password protected, and some areas for others. Or we could make the whole board closed, except for us. With alot of minds working together, this will keep getting bigger and better. I will keep everyone posted, it could be operational by tomorrow. We could also set up a hosted chat room

I will update the knol foundation page tomorrow with a link to our forum and our chat room, and some re-arranging of our pictures.

2009-01-10 SK @ The Judge

I am speechless! We have not just created a new foundation thanks to your practical genius and amazingly natural talents you have single handedly given birth to a foundation that is very much alive. Yes, lets make Peter our seventh founding member and we would like you to announce that the founding membership is now closed and that the general membership is now open (suggested by our President). We may still need a few people for the board of directors. These will have lesser voting rights. We can even have an honorary board of directors with no voting rights. Also we can approach a few mavens like Dr. Chopra as Patrons.

My new knols are: Meditation (inspired by Dr. Deepak Chopra’s knol) and Review of Consciousness by Dr. Deepak Chopra.

2009-01-11 KS @ The Group

decision by voting . let’s make a sample .
what’s the best number of members in a main group ?
now we make a vote . e.g. :
Judge :7; Prof : ?; SK : 7; AK : ?; KS : 5
then there is a discussion about the best number (i have indeed some reasons that 5 is the most practicable number) .
if it takes too much time to unify, we can ask our knol star to decide . actually it’s jan . but it could also be e.g. the judge (and indeed i think he is a good election ) . if our knol star decides wrong, we may vote a new knol star and he (it) may do a new decision .

but as i wrote already, i want no longer to be in the header group,
1. i have an idea, what to do with the KTPs of AK and i want to concentrate on this .
2. i have a group model of the board of directors (like the structure of a chess board)
and i want to be the first to realise it .
3. just because i think, 5 is the best number for a header group, i think, we must be able
to rotate or to swap our positions .
so please read 2009-01-10 KS again and tell me your views .

2009-01-11 Judge

All the founders need to go to
Register for the board. Once you do I will send you an email with the password for the private founder discussion area. That is the only password protected area of the board. In there is a poll about how to go about with registering new members.
This is an overview of the poll.
I am thinking we could get their name and country and province they live in. We would link to their profile page and they would need to link to our main foundation page.
We should also set up a separate knol account to set up our foundation pages. If we run adsense ads we need a separate account. We would also need to set up a pay pal button for donations under the same account.
There is also a chat button on the forum, on the top, last button on the right, next to log out. We should see if we could set up a time to get the founders to chat.
KS-The voting makes some sense. It is sometimes hard to get everyone to put their vote in. If it was a case where we couldn’t get everyone to vote, a knol star would make sense. When KVSS first commented to me that the foundation would need to come from the US, I became involved. I think the knol star should come from the US also. So I guess that would be Sajid or me. I would be honored to be the knol star and would try to decide in the best interests of the group. Sajid, is that OK with you? What are the opinions of the other founders?
PG – Would you want the position as secretary. Will your (bad)? English prevent you from taking this position? I read some of your knols and you have good English. KS, our present secretary doesn’t want the position. He could head the board of directors. Would that position be good for you Kalle?
IMPORTANT
All members need to get a copy of our aims for the foundation to SK so he can begin the paperwork for our organization. He has asked for this a couple of times already. I have not done it yet either, but we need to keep moving along.

Grin We have a good group and will meet with success in this venture.

2009-01-11 SK @ Judge

You have my vote to be the knol star. I am very good at reading peoples abilities. Of all the knollers I saw our Prof. as the best choice for President. And I saw you as the best choice for Executive Director. Both of you have more than proved your worth to this foundation. Especially you have been doing miraculous work. There is no better person than the two of you for the position of knol star. As the knol star is supposed to come from US you are more than welcome to be the knol star.

2009-01-11 KS @ Judge

well, here is a proposal that makes you knol star and 5 p.Grin :
Judge
< Prof.
< < JE
< SK
< AK
< < KS

Prof – JE and AK – KS are already existing . the other connections are new .
so, Prof & AK, is that okay for you ?

01-11 SK @ Our Team

I am getting ready to file the papers. So we are going to have only six members? How about JMC? You cannot invite someone and then just drop them?

01-11 Judge @ Team

JMC has been invited and is on the Knol Author Foundation Board. Peter Greenfinch is our secretary because KS decided to become Director of the Board. He will head the board we will be assembling. Go to the Foundation page for the new layout.

01-12 KS @ Judge

i can head the board in the sense of being the first but i hope, not the last 😉

01-12 KS @ AK

we can make the KTPs more general . you did the first step by including html .
do you know whuffy ? we can take it as rudiments (elements) of google gold .
one creates wuffy by making pledges . 1 w(huffy) = (1$ + 1€) / 2 .
we have to pay the pledges when google is willing to change our money into google gold .
let’s make a start : i’m pledging 300 w (round about 300 euro) .
i give 10 w to WS for unflagging my knols .
i give 10 w to the Prof for starting Bulletin Board .
i give 10 w to SK for writing Wisdom Knol ,
i give 10 w to the Judge for making Knol Author Foundation
i give 10 w to you for making Knol Categories .
now we can write : KS : 250, WS : 10, Prof : 10, SK : 10, Judge : 10, AK : 10 .

01-12 AK @ KS

The idea behind KTP is to spread Knols via translations. The idea is:

  • Anna is translating Kims Knol in her native language and gets the KTP from Kim
  • Kim is translating Joses Knol in his native language and gets the KTP from Jose
  • Jose is translating Annas Knol in his native language and gets the KTP from Anna

Not all Knol-Authors can speak more than one language. So they can get KTP for solving Knol-design-problems or for the best Knol of the Month. But this is not the primary intention. The goal is to spread the Knols by translating them.
I don’t know what “wuffies” are and what “google gold” is. Please send me an e-mail, so we can discuss this in German language.
http://groups.google.com/group/knol-users-de

01-12 SK @ The Judge and KS

KS as Director of the board sounds funny. It means Director of Directors. His title has to be Chairman of the board of Directors. Or even Chairman of the board.

01-12 KS

@ Judge and SK
why not board man ? that matches likewise with bulletin board .
@ JMC and AK
congratulations on your knol star connection .
(that makes the Judge a symmetric 6 p. (if we suppose, SK votes the Prof and the Prof votes the Judge))

01-12 PG @ The Judge

What I wonder is what is the mission of the secretary of a foundation. Does it imply filling administrative procedures linked to the foundation’s registration and its legal compliance?
In that case, should not the secretary be a resident of the country where the foundation is registered?

1-12 KVSS @ SK

Have you read http://www.sixseconds.com/pdf/WP_EQ_Success.pdf.
They are talking of model currculum of EQ or EI.

I registered for the foundation forum on pro boards.

1-12 Judge

We may need someone to fill the secretary title.

PG thinks that title should possibly be held by someone in the US.

Everyone but KS is registered on the board. You should all have a password to get into the private founder discussion area.

1-12 SK @ Prof.

Thank you for for the information on sixseconds.com. I saw their paper. It seems like a similar approach as of others, even though it is more refined. My way of teaching emotional intelligence is by focusing on cleaning the brain of emotional garbage. Mostly every one else’s approach is by way of understanding and cultivating the attributes of emotional intelligence. This one seems to be the same old way. However I will have to study this further.

@ The Judge
The secretary’s job is to record the minutes of the meeting and keep all members informed of what is going on. In our case the internet record itself is the secretary, however it is a legal requirement and so for now I will be the secretary and the treasurer.

1-13 KS

hi PG,
what if you write here in french, and we try to translate it . is a good exercise .

1-12 KS

@ Everyone but KS is registered on the board
you are the first group and i’m the beginning of a second group .
we’ll make our own board .
my speaker to your group is AK .
b.t.w. my english is too slow for your board .

1-13 Judge

Translation

Good, I will follow your suggestion: Freedom, equality, fraternity! Live Knol! Live the Foundation! : -)

1-13 KS

and now in german :
gut, ich werde deinem vorschlag folgen : freiheit, gleichheit, brüderlichkeit !
vive knol ! vive la fondation ! (this we don’t need to translate in german) 🙂

1-13 KS @ Judge

what about Michael McNally(MMN) as your seventh founding member ?


liberté          vive

égalité         la

fraternité      fondation

1-13 SK @ KS

MM is a google employe? They want no legal part in our foundation because I did propose “Knol Help” as a founder.
Thanks to you I discovered a new pleasure in life. I translated my poem into German and then back into English. Then I kept translating into other languages and not only did the poem change some it even gave me a glimpse into how different language speakers think and construct reality. This can be a new added tool to understand how different peoples comprehend people from othr languages. If I am talking to you and I know how German speaking translate English into German I will know better how my English thoughts are being understood and how they are being translated into German thoughts. All the more reason we must teach our kids at least two non native languages. Let me see If I can show you what I mean.
Why don’t you write a knol on the pleasures of google translation?
If you are not interested then I can post this as a knol.
Next time please wait to tell me of mistakes. I lost two hours of work.

In fact as I remember from the translation I could figure out that our Germans are more technical! Also If you are having a writers block then translate your last paragraph back and forth and your writers block will most likely disappear. Sometimes the translated sentences are more magical.

My song

‘My heart kept seeking an opportunity for weeping

For I had affection but nowhere to spend it

My life was very miserable

For I had affection but no where to spend it.

And then she came, she did, the dame, Oh man!

And now life is plain joy,

and I spend my affection in her belly!!!

(Some people consider this as porn. But remember food goes into the belly through the mouth and no other way. So what I mean is I spend my affection by kissing her!!)

Back from Spanish

“My heart keeps searching for an opportunity to mourn

Because I had affection, but nowhere to spend

My life is very miserable

Because I had affection, but not where to spend it.

And then came the lady who did it, Oh man!

And now life is simple joy

and spend my affection in her belly!

Back from French

“My heart kept looking for an opportunity to tears

For the affection, but I had nowhere to spend

My life was very unhappy

For the affection, but I had no case to spend it.

And then she came, she was the lady, Oh man!

And now, life is plain joy

and I spend my affection in her belly!

The most funny one back from Hindi

My heart cry for a chance to put the demand

Because I do not have anywhere to spend but it was love

My life was very upset

Because I was not in love, where to spend it.

And then he came, that, oh man was a woman! (Did I compose this intriging line? or does this line belong to the google translator – because I can never compose such a crazy beautiful line).

And now enjoy life, is plain

In his stomach and I spent my love!

Back from Arabic

‘My heart has been seeking an opportunity to cry

I would have love, but no place to spend it (What a Divine line! Reflects resignition of life – would have love if I knew I had a place to spend it!)

My life is very miserable

I had to love them, but do not spend it.

Then came, she did the woman, man!

Now, life is evident in the joy, ( Again did I compose this?)

I spend my affection in the stomach!

Back from Chinese (simplified)

‘My heart has been seeking opportunities to cry

Because of my feelings, but nowhere to spend money

My life is very tragic

Because of my feelings, but no where to spend it.

Then she and her Notre Dame, oh!

And now life is very simple happiness,

And I spent my feelings in her belly! (How do you spend feelings in the belly?)

Back from Philipino

‘My heart clean looking for an opportunity to cry

For I had nothing but love to spend it

My life is very miserable

For me love but had no where to spend it.

And then he came, he was the woman, Oh man! (Did I right this line?)

And now life is simple happiness,

I and my love of his stomach!

Back from Danish


“My heart kept looking for an opportunity to cry

Because I had affection, but nowhere to use it

My life was very miserable

Because I had affection, but not when to use it.

And then she came, she did the Queen, Oh man!

Now life is plain joy,

and I use my affection in her stomach!

And dear KS you please translate into German.

My heart kept to a chance for crying

Because I had affection but nowhere to spend it

My life was very unhappy

Because I had no affection, where it is spent.

And then she came, she had a lady, Oh man!

And now, life is simply joy,

and I spend my affection in her belly!

1-13 KS @ SK

i translated your poem forth and back with the help of knol and this is the result :

my life had no temptation,
but then came the foundation Grin

sorry for the two lost hours . next time, i get a warning, i’ll make a copy and wait till you have finished .


@ Why don’t you write a knol on the pleasures of google translation?

as you know, i’m refactoring your google translation weisheit, trying to make it good german .
now that’s a long article and a lot of work .
you also know, that i made a google translation google gold . that’s a short article and few work to make it good english . but this didn’t happen . so there are not so plenty pleasures of google translation 😦

1-13 SK @ KS

You indeed are a big inspiration for me as you have been the source of many original ideas. But I can’t try to improve anything that I cannot understand myself. My knowledge is mostly confined to native/grandma’s wisdom and your knol is too sophisticated for me to fully understand. Perhaps other team members can help you here. Maybe I can try to fix some of the grammar if you want.

1-13 Judge @ Team

What do you think of the idea of having a director for each country, or at least each language?
We could have knols in different languages under different sections in the foundation.
We have German, French and Spanish and English and Sanskrit directors already.
I also have a question. Under comments how do you leave a link to a page? I would like to approach authors in their comment section and leave a link to the foundation.

1-13 KS @ Judge

you copy the url into the comment section . it becomes a link by saving it .

1/13 SK @ Team

The Judge is proposing a brilliant idea. Perhaps Our Prof. can find a fellow Prof. who may become the Hindi Director. His job can start with writing his own knols and translating the teams knols in Hindi. Perhaps Kuddadad Azara can become the Balluch/Pushto director.

1-14 KVSS

In due course we will find persons for each language, who will translate the main foundation pages in their language. Hindi translation of foundation pages will be arranged. That is not a problem. Even Telugu translation will be done. That is my mother tongue. More indian languages. Will happen. I have coauthors on my question board knol who are from different languages. We may form a committee later on in foundation for languages and translation and induct persons from the general members of the foundation. The initiative Mr. Kemper is driving now.

Do we need more directors now. Or can we enrol general members and then select or elect directors from the general members.? If we decide then we can invite authors accordingly.

1-13 SK

@ Prof.
You are amazing, I am in awe of your dedication and expertise.
I have inquired about this. In New Jersey the requirement is a minimum of 3 directors. So we have enough for now. As I live in New Jersey I want to register it here; also it is cheaper here.
@ KS
I have translated your google gold into plain English. You may still need help to polish it up. The best would be some one who is good in both languages. Did you like my poem translations?

1-14 KVSS

I opened a page with knol author foundation as author.
We can settle down to a procedure how such pages will be opened by us in the future and who will have the authority to open such pages. We discuss the issue in our discussion board. I just made one posting in the discussion board after some modification was done by judge in the settings. Also I made one post regarding content strategy. Whether to have current affairs pages in knol or not is a strategic issue.
Andreas Kemper sent me message in Marathi. til gud ghya. Ghod ghod bola.
Marathi Manus of Mumbai will be very happy.

1-14 SK

My new knol: Emotional intelligence = A squeaky, emotionally clean and healthy brain with no emotional baggage/garbage.Today I was writing this knol and I had to go to drop my son off to school. Waiting in the car for him I decided to walkover to the church accross the street. They had the bible opened at, “In Christ all the fullness of the Diety lives in bodily form… – Colossians 2:6-15 (9). Such a Devine code of the bible; it seconds every thing I am trying to say. So I am going to write a knol on decoding this devine insight, actually I could write a book on this one. Another line was “What is truth?” – Pilate asked. – John 12:38. This will be my next knol soon.
@KS
Please translate your other knols I will do my best. I want to make you happy just as you have always made me happy.

1-14 KS @ SK

good work . excellent . i can see on your refactoring, that you are a language talent and a wise man .
but now i have to leave for refactoring “weisheit” 🙂

1-14 MBP Lee (a British contributor)

If there is any way I can contribute, I am prepared to be involved in this venture.
This is my a sample of my articles:
http://knol.google.com/k/mbp-lee/-/1l23x9udotn1a/0#knols

1-14 The Judge @ MBP

MPB Lee- It is glad to see another author willing to contribute. Would you be interested in becoming an England Director? We are trying to get an author from each country to become a director.If you are interested I could have a chat with the other founders about have you join us as a director. Each director would be in charge of the knol authors of that country. To see what our aims are go to Knol Author Foundation. To discuss our aims I have set up a forum and chatroom. go to this link o check it out.

1-14 MBP Lee @ Judge

Yes, I suppose that was the main purpose of my offering to represent my region, Britain, to promote better Knols to the best of my abilities. Yes, I have look around and perhaps my next step is to join in the discussion groups. Thank you!

1-14 SK

@ KS
You didn’t tell me if you liked my poem translations and if you would like to write a knol on the pleasures of google translations.

1-15 KS

@ poem
i answered it by making a translation forth and back (on the end of your translations)
and also by a poem of mine . how do you like it ?
@ pleasures of google translations.
there are other themes in my focus . perhaps i’ll do later .

1-15 SK @ KS

Your poem sings better than my poem. I will have to take a few writing lessons from you.

1-15 KS @ SK

your praising me makes me very shy .
how do you know, if someone is working on this page ?

1-15 SK @KS

Shyness is one of the biggest keys to greatness. DID YOU KNOW THAT THE WORLD’S WISEST PERSON WAS SHY, GANDHI. The greatest scientist – Einstein was shy. So was Lincoln and FDR! Read my knol shypower.

If someone is writing on this board and you too start writing then a message appears at the top telling you that your posting may interfere with his.

1/15 SK @ Team

This filing took 6 minutes on line. The initial process will take approx. 4 weeks. All 3 directors have to be from US for filing. So I took a friend, later he will drop out. I have hidden The Judge’s name on this board.

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