board 2009 (may I)

5/15 A

@ KS: I see the “you have permission to manage this knol” on the page.
@ All: I would like to know, can we post updates here about our knols (writing new ones, voting in the KOTM, etc.)?
Also, should I be in the knol star thing?
One more question–what do you all think about the idea of “knol books?” Someone else already came up with the idea — I forget who, I think it might have been Peter Baskerville — but basically a knol book would be the same thing as my knol, My Opinion Of America. What are your opinions?

5/16 KS @ PG

i share your worry and i fear the day when these wikipedia bureau(c)rats will come to knol to spread their politics her .
rights of co-authors : do you see a “you have permission to manage this knol” button on this page ?

5/15 A @ KS

Thanks for the warm welcome and the tip. Glad to be part of this! 🙂

5/15 KS @ A

welcome aboard . the color formatting looks good . you don’t need the spaces, if you click on the html button and replace “span” and “/span” by “div” and “/div” . (and don’t forget the update button) .
i can do this for you, because i do this for all the others too .

5/15 A @ All

Thank you for inviting me to be a co-author — I really support the KAF. Hello to all!
By the way — I hope I did the color formatting right.

5/15 PG @ All

Thanks for those who consider me as the knol star, I’m quite honored, but as there are very few votes let us say I consider myself as a trainee star 😉
As for the bulletin board, I am in favor of Angela becoming a co-author. Technically, I thought the board was in the account of all co-authors (but maybe I’m wrong), thus that if one resign, the statutes of the others do not change, there is no real power hierarchy between them. If one has to rank first in the list, my opinion is that it should be KVSS who is the most productive author.
Another thing, to avoid any criticism that would be addressed to this board as seen as a by-product of KAF, It might be useful to write a precision above the logo: “This board is open to all knoll authors and visitors, and has the support of:….”/ Now if other groups also want to support it, they just have to tell us their intention.
I take the opportunity to express a worry I have: I see an emerging temptation among some (activist?) authors, under the pretense of “quality”, to invent a large set of rules that would determine what is a “good” knol, and a “bad” knol, Then we could soon become a “Wikipedia-style” bureaucracy. It is quite useful to have guides that give advices to authors, and that state a few common sense limits (about libel, spam, plagiarism…), but no more. Maybe we could indicate in this board, as well as in the KAF mission, that we do not attribute ourselves any power to install rules for authors.

5/15 Angela

I would like to be a co-author of the board — but that’s up to you guys.
By the way, I emailed the KAF.

5/15 SK @ KS

You, me and Angelo are all mavericks! PG is a maven! He is perfect for the job!

5/15 KS

you are the greatest ! knol star may decide !
@ PG
we have made you knol star . please do your job 🙂

5/15 KVSS

It is nice that Angela wants to join the team. Please invite Angela as a coauthor first. If KS wants to move the bulletin board from his account (He is under attack), I think the next choice could be PG. Then it will move on. Of course KS said knol star can decide. 
Mr. Aune, a member of KAF has written a comment on foundation members page. Please have a look at it and give your comments.

5/14 Angela Oh ok

Oh, thanks for the feedback/praise/info. I see now (I think). I’ll just sit back and let y’all do the work.

5/14 KS @ Angela

whoa, i am happy .
salt in the soup means, that you write spicy articles (e.g. MyOpinionOfAmerica) and you know that persons are more important than things . and last not least you help us to become a team !
bulleting board means to help each other .

list of initials :
Andreas Kemper, Jesus Martin Calvo, Kalle Schwarz, KVSS (Narayano Rao), Peter Greenfinch, Panos (Panagiotis Peteinatos), Sajid Khan, Spiros KAKOS,

@ team
AK: yes | no, JMC: yes | no, KS: yes, KVSS: yes | no, PG: yes | no, Panos yes | no, SK: no, SKAKOS: yes | no …

5/14 Angela

Whoa whoa whoa whoa
I just wanted to help with the board — since it’s tied yes or no (and I am assuming I get no say in this), I’d be perfectly happy with just joining “the team.” However — I am quite unsure of two things: a), what exactly one does with said bulletin board, and b), what exactly is meant when I am called “the salt in the soup.” Soup does perfectly well with salt and without — I am quite bewildered of the meaning here.

I would very much like to be a co-author of this board — I don’t know how it makes a difference to be a 1st author or a 2nd one. I know I’m not the most popular of authors around here (I did, after all, tick Murray off quite mordantly), but I would love to become a part of this great work.

P.S. All these initials have my head spinning. 🙂

5/14 AK

A list of articles about swine flu and anti-mexican sentiment: H1N1 – Discrimination and Racism

If you know some more article please ad them to this list.

5/14 SK @ KS

Yours was the first word, mine was the second and let the rest vote yes or no and then you have the last word and decide. I will go with your decision.

5/14 KS @ SK

i don’t accept this ownwership crap .
you were the one who said :
KAF belongs to the world and as usual we want the last word on this from you ” .
i dont want the last word, i just want to give my two pennies :
let bulletin board belong to the world .
and where is the esprit in saying “it should remain with the current co-authors” ?
we are the soup but Angela is the salt in the soup .
if we can’t unite then let knol star decide it .

5/13 SK @ KS

This board has done well under your ownership. Only if you want to give it up it should go to KVSS and it should remain with the current co-authors. I would still prefer you as the 1st author.

5/13 KS @ SK

you didn’t get it .
we act as a team . so i can’t do anything against the agreement of KVSS . ok ?
btw. i will only give it back because PB and MS are agitating against me .
btw.2 i am one of the founders of this board . KVSS and you were the egg . i was the sperm 🙂 .
please make your vote, so we can discuss it

5/13 SK @ KS

It is clear that Angela is not keen to take over the board. This board was started by KVSS and if you do not want it any more you should give it back to him.

5/13 KS

answering a comment of Angela i wrote :
“… btw. i am looking for a person to whom I can pass bulletin board . are you interested ? i can help you by making the color formatting .”
and the answer was :
“Sure–even though I’m not really sure what to do with it! 🙂
Color formatting? What for?

5/12 KVSS

Yes for both SK & PG.
There are so many news sites but our developing an issue specific knol is important because we are collecting sufficiently filtered news and our views emerge from that news. We may be good commentators but we require the basic news on which to comment upon. Japanese managers believed that if employees collect data and record it they will act upon it. If we monitor economic crisis and write regularly about it we may be in a position to comment on the right time for business investments as well as financial investments. Like in share markets, the good performance of one company may the beginning of turnaround in an industry, a good performance in one industry may signal turnaround in the economy, a good performance in one country may signal revival of global economy. But unless we are monitoring, we do not know what is happening. So developing a news and views board may be of help to us.
As PG advised we need to be more neutral in politics but still we should be able to cover the political processes. Political process of each country and at each level are important for understanding and improving the political processes as well as life of people in general.
I saw an interesting article written in 2004. Open access publishing — panacea or Trojan horse?,
Med Sci Monit. 2004 Jan;10(1):ED1-3.
Whereas we are discussing now certain issues as we got interested in knol, these issues are under discussion for quite sometime.
By Michael A Rizzotti is an interesting knol. Mr. Rizzotti is a member of KAF.


5/12 SK @ Team

I think that there are all ready too many news sites. As knol is built on the belief that people across the board can offer valuable insights, we must focus on what new we can offer the world. We must flush out knols that are original and place them in one listing. Also people with half baked ideas who are stuck can seek help from other experts. People with similar interests can form working teams and help each other in their work. We can actually create an on line community of researchers who can work as a virtual university campus. With this idea in mind many months back I started a knol and forgot about it. Recently KVSS noticed it. It is called, Science Bulletin Board – International. If the team likes this I can invite all of you as co-authors. KS is already a co-author.
I also feel a need to highlight the common humanness in all mankind and so I started the following bulletin board. Again we can all be co-authors of this one. And our KS is already there with me.
Spiritual Experience Bulletin Board.

I get excited when I get an original idea or if I get an old idea that I can express from a new angle. So I am writing a new knol:
How you can actually talk to your Jesus or your Buddha
“I have entrusted all judgment to my son…” – The Bible

The bible here is referring to Jesus. In all actions of life Gd has delegated the powers to the son, Jesus, in all matters of life. So can we entrust all judgment to Jesus? But how is this possible? Even while in his presence in a church talking to Jesus is a matter of faith. Scientifically we cannot prove one way or another whether Jesus is listening or answering our prayers. The bible also says that we are all children of Gd and that Jesus is present in us. So how can we know and more important how can we communicate with Jesus to ask for his judgment. How can we find Jesus in us so that we are able to communicate with him? The voice of our conscience is the voice of Jesus. The pure humanness in us manifests itself in the form of our conscience. Our conscience represents the Christ in us. And we can talk to our conscience and seek guidance!

5/12 PG à KVSS

I think to develop current issue knols is a good idea.
What should be clear in my opinion is that they must just places to report news but not for discussions on “hot topics” (politics for example), nor propaganda by organizations or individuals that would see it as an opportunity to promote their agenda..

5/12 KVSS – Current Issues Knols

Today morning I saw an article about the most popular websites in India. In India especially there was a section on cricket web sites. Presently IPL tournament of India is being held in South Africa. I saw the second and third site having around 100,000 and 70,000 page views per month.
That brings back my old idea regarding content strategy. We should open knols on current issues as bulletin boards. Knol authors and visitors can add the news and views to the bulletin board and it keeps on developing over a period of time till the issue is of interest. Then it becomes an archive.
I started a bulletin board on global economic crisis 2007-09
I think Sajid Khan can start one on New York Mayor’s Election. The present battle in Pakistan is an interesting issue. In Cricket 20 over world cup is coming up shortly. Politics, Sports, Economics, Science etc. give us current issues of interest continuously. If we can first identify the issues of interest and then offer them for KAF members to start a bulletin board knol on that issue it will be good. All persons who come across any news regarding that issue will go and post in that bulletin board. We can keep a list of bulletin boards so that all of us know the topics on which bulletin boards are there.
I came to know from Hindi Knol Authors Bulletin Board that today 12th May is the birthday of Florence Nightingale.

5/11 PG @ KS

Thanks KS, but the “set display language” button appears only after I select a knol, and then it just changes a few headers. Maybe I don’t know how to use it in a right way. Or maybe there is no french home page.
Breaking news,;-) I just changed my setting and could get the French homepage. But still there is no
 sorting of knols according to languages.

5/11 KS

“what about home pages in other languages ?
my knol account has a button “set display language” where i can switch to the german home page .
therefore i think, in french it’s the same . perhaps we may ask knol help how to find the french home page .
“establish (language) relations”
this is a big point .

5/10 PG

About what might attract authors, what can help Knol developement, and what can make Knol be seen as an indispensable tool that perfectly fits a dynamic world in constant evolution, we might stress our open attitude towards new advances in knowledge, This an approach in which Wikipedia, which is more oriented towards static / stabilized knowledge, seems particularly weak. Here is my latest comment on this aspect: Good portrait of a visionary project turned into a bureaucracy

5/10 AK

It’s possible now to vote for the Best Knol oft the Month May 2009
And you can propose further candidates (Knols must be created between March
1st and May 1st 2009).

5/10 KVSS

About a KAF member – Wlodzimierz Holsztynski

Introduction by Wloz himself in

I am interested mainly in mathematics.
I am also developing, since 1985 (not intensively enough), an international written language dabanese (you may read aloud dabanese phrases in any way you like–pronunciation is not a part of the dabanese proper). Actually, dabanese is a major part of daba, which is a carefully logical universal data base. I hope to write more about daba and dabanese in my knols. Finally, I would like to present and to convince people about The Art of Agreeing. I have listed some heavy weight topics but I might indulge myself in ad hoc topics too like descriptions of original chess variants and of other games.
Knol Special characters is auxiliary – it contains Greek and special Polish characters, mathematical symbols, and a Russian keyboard, so that knol writers can easily copy these characters and paste them into their own texts.
Mathematics knols by Wloz
Let us know more about our members and contribute to their knols if we have appropriate ideas. I add the knols related to Chemistry, Physics and Mathematics in my blogs and knols related to IIT JEE preparation, the premier entrance examination of India for admission to top science and technology institutes of India.  Wloz is the coauthor of  my knol on California Knols and knol authors.
The finance bulletin board has got good visitors for the first week

5/9 PG

On the topic on about how to develop Knol and attract and help authors and visitors, with a specific attention to isolated authors and visitors, we might have to ask Google to show more interest to those who use other languages than English.
For example – and that is only an example – the Knol home page signals only knols in English. What about home pages in other languages ?
And what about tags that would show for a knol in what language(s) it is written ? This would, among other advantages, facilitate knol list-making. Personally, I find it not too practical to have no distinction made between my knols in English and French. I got a remark about that from other French language knollers.
For information, they have their own informal community. This makes me think that the advantage of the KAF, as an international system / network, is that it could establish relations with such language communities.
Another thing is that to help authors and visitors depends of a knowledge of their needs. But, not even a poll will tell it, as polls are based on preset questions that might not detect the real needs. To get that information in order to promote Knol could be an essential purpose of this bulletin board. Here, I agree fully with Kakos and others on using positively the board as an instrument to find ways to promote Knol. Maybe this will lead later to create a more sophisticated tool (suggestion box) for all knollers to express their wishes and ideas.

5/9 KVSS

This point of Kakos is worth noting

4. Is there a list with “the collective activities for the growth of knol platform” that KAF is supposed to organize (as its scope says) ? If no participation of members is required for anything KAF does, then what is the “membership” all about?

A list is there with the aims and objectives of the foundation.  mission statement aims and objectives. But the list has no relevance unless we operationalize it. We need to invite members’ participation in coming out with ideas to take some campaign for the growth of knol platform. I did write a comment on KAF members knol requesting all members to write their ideas in this bulletin board or as a comment on that knol itself. I think all active members have to support that comment or write separate comments to encourage members to come out with their thoughts. Then we can select one, two or three activities and carry out them. Finalizing some activities by month end and carrying out the campaign from 1st June to 22nd July would be good as it will coincide with one year completion of public platform of knol.

5/9 KS @ AK

look at the videos und überleg dir außerdem, dass die kritik für einen nicht-deutschen ja gar nicht erkenntlich ist, dann verstehst du vielleicht den witz . es steckt aber noch viel mehr dahinter . es ist ein suchen nach der richtigen antwort auf die gemeinheit unseres kleinen m-monsterchens, der hier einen zusammenhang an den haaren herbeigezogen hat, der mir überhaupt nicht in den sinn gekommen ist . verlangst du etwa, dass ich mich jetzt entschuldigen soll . für etwas, was garnicht vorhanden ist ? in eine solche verrücktheit kann man doch nur durch angst und feigheit getrieben werden .
natürlich ist Murry kein Monster, der ausdruck soll ihm einfach nur mein bauch-gefühl widerspiegeln .
moreover, I believe that I get more confidence when I am authentic, instead of behaving tactically.

5/9 AK@KS

I didn’t say “Murry Monster” – I criticized you for your words. Please stop the provocation and don’t make such kind of jokes. It’s time to gain confidence – but if you call other people “monster” and if you make such kind of jokes, nobody will trust in you.

5/9 KS

@ AK
you said “Murry Monster” ;-(
dassdiesejudeneinendochgleichimmerandenpfahlbringenodersteinigenmuessen 🙂
@ team
how about Spiros ?
is it allowed to write a poem ?
and everytime i write an email, google says : you are currently using 0% of your 7324 MB.

5/8 SKAKOS @ All

Is there a list of conclusions that are reached and agreed upon by all? Reading all this list of pages with accusations and questions and answers is almost impossible and I have a really hard time understanding what is the way “out” of this never-ending loop of discussion that does nothing more than hurt the main purpose of the Foundation which is supposed to be the promotion of Knol in the world.

My own “summary of conclusions” is:

1. I want to participate in efforts that promote Knol and the sharing of knowledge via online initiatives.

2. Too many people spend much time and energy for personal attacks or comments, i.e. for things that are outside the scope of KAF and of Google Knol in general. Knol is supposed to be mainly for online articles, not for online forums. It seems that some people see it the other way around. I can spot such people both inside and outside of the KAF.

3. I will continue to write Knols and encourage others to keep “knoling”. Nothing more, nothing less.

4. Is there a list with “the collective activities for the growth of knol platform” that KAF is supposed to organize (as its scope says) ? If no participation of members is required for anything KAF does, then what is the “membership” all about?

5/8 KS @ PG

in my opinion it should only be about making thing easier for isolated knollers or isolated visitors.”
this is the direction we should go . as a group we can do this together . the only thing we had to decide is to whom we shall concentrate . from then on we decide together with the new person(s) .
in a certain way we did that with Panos too, but we did that inofficial . the official appearence was onother one . and this was our failure .

5/8 KVSS

I opened a bulletin board for the subjects of behavioral sciences.

I wanted to highlight some knols in a post. The following knol attracted my attention.

Shaping Social Behavior Online By Daniel Bayn   An interesting and relevant topic for online groups. It is about abuse of and abuse in social online network groups.

5/8 SK @ PG

“I’m not too keen about mixing religion (or philosophic schools) to all issues”. Nether am I. Religious scriptures were written by extremely wise people. And I like to quote religious text only to shed more light on my concepts explaining wisdom. Also wisdom is considered in the domain of philosophy but I am trying to define it in scientific terms to bring it firmly into the domain of science. So when I bring in religion and philosophy it is only to explain my work on wisdom. I have defined wisdom as the highest stage of emotional intelligence. And emotional intelligence is part of every human behavior.

@ Panos
‘SK, the 1st founder, never initiated or endorsed any respectful voting procedure’. So far there was no need for any voting. All we have done is write knols, post our ideas on this board and try to expand the KAF membership and spread branches all over the globe. I never imposed my ideas on anyone. When I saw that your mission statement was same as the 1000s of similar statements I told you so but my idea was to challenge you to come up with some thing more original. When you came up with the UN charter like mission statement I eventually endrosed it. I feel that when some one is in charge then the ultimate dicisions belong to the one who is incharge so I endrosed your mission statement and your logo.

We were expanding at a good pace. Then the Randy scandal happened. And everyone has a right to get mad at him. But you cannot blame the whole KAF team for this. You cannot blame KVSS for not posting his CV. A CV is not required. He is so famous that if you google ‘KVSS’ he comes up.

Look at the wild accusations you made against me. I know the real issue is not KVSS’s CV and me being a crook. It is about KVSS not reacting fast enough against Randy. Some hot words were exchanged. And some people took all this stuff personally.

I still think we are all spiritual twins struggling to make the world better. I tried to approach Peter, Murry and Krishan to give up personal grudges in the interest of knol objectives. But it is not going to happen any time soon. So instead of creating any more damage why don’t you start your own foundation and leave us alone. If things cool down we can come back together again. Also I am not asking you for any appology but if I have hurt your feelings in any way then I am apologising right now. Please forgive me for any misunderstandings. And if anytime you or Peter, Murry and Krishan ever need my help I will always be there for you.

5/7 KS

last news: germany accuses google copyright violations on a large scale–/meldung/137454
@ AK
if Panos, Peter Baskerville, Murry and Krishan (and you) make their knol star votes, then it is ok for me to give over the bulletin board to PB . he is a good man .

5/7 AK

Hallo Kalle. Ich weiß, dass du deine Kommentare nicht ernst meinst. Aber auch eine witzig gemeinte Zuschreibung bleibt eine Zuschreibung. Ich finde die Kommentare NICHT witzig. Auch nicht die Titulierung “Murry Monster”.

I didn’t know all the time, what to do. Yet i also did not know what to do.
So I’m leaving the Knol Author Foundation. Until now I’m no director or member of the KAF.

I wish someone will do the first steps to build a new group. A group with enough place for the different point of views and ideas.

I like your enthusiastic engagement to winning new authors.
You are a very friendly man with a big great heart.
Du hast sehr gute Ideen und sehr viel Humor. Das ist gut. Auch wenn ich nicht immer damit übereinstimme.

Let’s looking forward, let’s build a new group together with Panos, Peter Baskerville, Murry and Krishan.

5/7 KS

this week i topped the page view number of murry monster . now, look what happend ;-( !ironical!
knol-star (comments)

5/7 Panos @ PG

I’ll help you understand my point of view.

  • Randy was the first voted Knol star of KAF. His case was the first Knol large-scale copyright infliction.
  • KVSS was the first president of KAF claiming to be a professor with no academic CV!
  • SK, the 1st founder, never initiated or endorced any respectful voting procedure and 
  • PG, you are the next voted Knol Star and you were the only director who asked us respect your privacy and not share any private data about your background.
  • Above all, the simple members don’t have any clue about all this.

 KAF organization structure has nothing to do with a legitimate transparent author foundation.

As I stated, I’m waiting some days in order to give time to the rest of directors to be informed and vote.  I’m then going to resign.

5/7 SK

My new knol:
Understanding Life Inside Out And Outside In

5/7 PG @ KS and all

I didn’t really identify what is the conflict with Panos, what is personal in it, and what is focused on practical and objective issues and solutions. I can only deal with the second hypothesis. Here are my two cents about it:
Yes, personnally I’m not too keen about mixing religion (or philosophic schools) to all issues. I don’t know if this is something specific to Occident. But to Europe, maybe.
As for the KAF, if it has some humanitarian goals, they should be made clear and their limits defined. In my opinion it should only be about making thing easier for isolated knollers or isolated visitors. In that respect I think that the translation assistance is one of the ways.
Seems to me that the KAF mission should focus on

* Promoting Knol itself
* Taking care of the authors’ interests,
* Helping to improve the scope and quality of articles,

Readers are even more essential than authors. Maybe they can start their own organization,
although I suppose the most assiduous readers are contaminated by the same writer virus than us 🙂

* But mostly by trusting authors’ free initiatives,

Therefore avoiding to lobby for excessive bureaucratic rules and practices, like those that are self-strangling another cooperative encyclopedia, which name I will not give ;-))

Having no exclusivity in those goals

Therefore looking positively at any other or informal knol author or reader community, and being ready to exchange ideas with them and to share intitiatives that could help all knollers.

It seems that the KAF mission is already defined more or less as such, so what is needed to be more precisely defined are the limits..
For example, to be practical, and as we are not a general purpose NGO, we could state that in case we get some funding, it should be used exclusively in conformity with the goals stated above.
Now what are the incidences, when taking all that into account, on the issue of staying or not with fhe foundation statute ? As I already said, seems to me that this can be decided only if – detailed enough -alternative ways to organize ourselves are proposed.

5/7 KVSS

About Wael Kdouh-Texas, USA a member of KAF
Currently pursuing  PhD in Computer Science at Southern Methodist University (SMU), Dallas, TX. My research involves finding different mechanisms to alleviate power consumption under emerging Chip Multi-Processors (CMPs).
His knol is Blu-ray Shopping.
It has 1232 page views so far and it has a knol quality tag. Hope he writes more knols.

Make your spiritual experience bulletin board – Spiritual Issues Bulletin Board. It may have good participation.

I felt that there are many subjects about which we need to form author groups so that knols in those subjects are in discussion and suggestions for improvement as well as for writing new knols emerge. Each subject may require its own bulletin board. The lists of knols and bulletin board have different purposes. Lists are more permanent directories of knols in a subject.

Bulletin boards highlight a knol or an issue at a point of time. An author can write more about his knol on a bulletin board and other authors and visitors can also write more about a knol or about an issue on the bulletin board. In that context only I made the above suggestion to SK. To rename the knol as Spiritual Issues Bulletin Board.

5/6 KS @ PG

two questions:
number one: what can we do to solve the conflict between Panos and KVSS ?
it seems to be a conflict between orient and occident .
If you come and teach politics to the hindus, they do not understand; but if you come to preach religion, however curious it may be, you will have hundreds and thousands of followers in no time”
number two: do you agree that we need a redifining of our group, a so called “KAF II (AK)” ?

5/6 KVSS

Hindi Knol Authors and Visitors Bulletin Board

Thanks to Spiros Kakos regarding his comments on marketing and promotion of knols.

Knol help has written in response to my comment on marketing that they are active in marketing. In turn they stated that quality is in important issue for the platform.
Authors have to look at quality issues as an important dimension at this point in time as knol help as specially emphasized.
I made the comment that knols categorized as low quality on various parameters can be made unpublished by knol help with the info. that it is a low quality knol. Authors will republish only after they improve the knol. As an author association, I think we will be supporting knol management in their endeavors to improve the output of the platform.

5/5 SK

My new knol : Is Creation by Intelligent Design?

5/5 KVSS

Are we still thinking about and contributing to the success of knol platform?

I updated the contest home page:

So that it now contains links to language-specific lists of knols. See the text:
“Browse recipies by language: Hindi, Tamil, Telugu, Kannada, Malayalam”
May 1, 2009

5/5 KVSS

Despite any statements by some persons, the transparency of any discussion in this forum is clear. The thrust of discussions in this forum is always the growth of knol platform. If anybody goes through the postings of the forum, they will not find anything personal from the original founders of the forum. Anything boasting or any personal agendas are latter arrivals and they are not in the interest of knol platform. The agenda set by this forum is the right one and of course others can set better agendas. But they need not start with destruction first. First destroy all early authors of knol cannot be a motto in a public online platform like knol.

5/4 KS @ PG

i think, SK is making a good decision .
it wasn’t wise to make a top down construction .
better alow a construction growing from earth to haven (like a tree) .
then fruits are falling from heaven to earth and new trees are growing .
the name KAF is correct, because we are all knol authors . it’s not knol foudation, it’s knol-author foundation .

5/4 PG

1) No. I’m not convinced at the moment that KAF should be dissolved, in the absence of proposals of alternatives or adaptations that would allow a vote to be made between several options.
2) No. This kind of issue is not an ordinary one, so I don’t consider that a vote by the knol star can decide for other members.

5/4 Panos

@ Alec
You made the best decision. As a technology director of this foundation I can say that KAF is actively serving a personal agenda and not it’s officialy declared objectives. I made efforts to inform in public all visitors about what’s going on in KAF and how decisions are being made. I’m going to be the next director to resign. I’m now still inside giving some time to the rest of directors to react. Already, many respective authors have resigned and others are going to resign as well. Any reasonable person would leave after beeing informed how decisions are being made inside KAF. Still, most members have no idea what’s going on.
@ SK,
I created an “open collaboration” status for the knol foundation members knol. I hope this way you can keep track the resignations and feel not any kind of responsibility for this mess. 

5/4 SK @ Team

I had filed just the first step towards a non profit organization. The full process is not even complete. All we have done is write knols and post our ideas on the board. The only money that has changed hands is what I and Panos have spent. Can we stay together if I dissolve the legal status and keep the foundation just on the internet?
@ Panos
Please make knol foundation members knol open colloberation as KS said. Also I am trying to take off Randy’s name and I can’t. Please take him off. Thanks.

5/4 KS

@ Panos
can you make knol foundation members open collaboration . then the members could remove themselves .
@ Alec
you are totally right here . your different mindset is welcome .
bulletin board is not KAF . the above logo is only a link .
you have strengthen my mind, that quantity is not automatical quality .
are you from hong kong or from dallas ?

5/4 Alec Radford

Sorry to butt in, I don’t know if this is considered to be a private Bulletin Board, but I’m still technically part of KAF. So I hope it is alright. On your voting list is the name DB, I’m assuming this is D. Boone, who is listed on Contributors. Anyways, D. Boone’s account is “Blocked”, so I don’t think he qualifies or can vote. Also, I am officially resigning from KAF. I wish you all well, but I joined with a different mindset than has been shown by some of KAF’s leaders and have decided to cut ties and go my own way for now. I was never really active here. Please remove my name from the various registries.
Thank you,

5/4 KS

peggy: yes (4/28), AK: yes | no, JMC: yes | no, KM: yes | no, KS: yes, KVSS: no (5/4), MMN: yes | no, MS: yes | no; PB: yes | no, PG: no (5/4), PP: yes, SK: yes | no, SKAKOS: yes, …
peggy: yes | no, AK: yes | no, JMC: yes | no, KM: yes | no, KS: yes, KVSS: no (5/4), MMN: yes | no, MS: yes | no; PB: yes | no, PG: no (5/4), PP: no, SK: yes | no, SKAKOS: no, …
Please give us clear answers.
@ SK
great, now we have a page, where we can put in all the comments of Murray 😉
then i misunderstood you .
i thought you proposed knol star as a decision making structure (a genious idea) to avoid majority decisions .
do you really belong to the majority group ? then you have no chance because you are the only one who votes “no” . but if you convince knol star by your arguments, KAF is saved .
that is quality aginst quantity and even Murray will applaud me .
btw. my voting means : if PG decides, i will accept the decision . if he not decides, i will leave KAF .

5/4 SK

My new knol: Emotional Brain Garbage ( EBG )

5/4 KVSS

Yesterday I managed to take my break from working on computer.
Regarding dissolution of KAF, Sajid registered it and unless Sajid wants to dissolve it, its legal status remains and the foundation will remain legally. Sajid is interested in doing something good through some foundation or other and probably knol author foundation is sufficiently famous that others want to snatch it. I do not see any need for dissolving the foundation. So knol star need not vote for me. My vote is clear. There is no reason for dissolving KAF. Knol star needs to vote when the individual is unable to vote himself. 
I am reading a book on OB by Luthans and it says Emotional intelligence is a state. I think there can be situations or circumstances when people are so distressed that even emotionally intelligent man will behave in an unintelligent fashion. Knol author foundation was subjected to that external shock and may be many of the people lost their emotional balance. But I think it will come back and we will do some good things. Anyway there are many knol author communities and I am a member of five including this KAF. Many more will spring up.

5/3 KS @ SK

i like your answer 🙂

5/3 SK @ KS

As usual the last word belongs to you. Yes I always think of taking mutual advantage. After all I am also a businessman.
How did you like my new knol – Brain Relief.

5/3 KS @ SK

because of our brain relief we could not get out of our emotional holes by ourselves . it’s like lifting us by pulling at our hair . trying to become +2 needs community too . look at your first call : surely there were more than one motive to call me . but you emphasized only the most noble . therefore i said “you look like a juggler” .
now comes the exercise :
look on your reaction like i looked on you . and see (with my eyes) your reaction to my looking  .

5/3 SK @ KS

I was and started out as emotionally lame and then I got out of my emotional holes and when I found myself normal I said what the heck now that I am on a roll let me continue because +1 ( normal ) is not the best. So I have tried to become +2! My new knol today is Brain Relief . Please read it and tell me what you think of it.

5/3 KS

great !
so, in accordance to the prof’s posting, we can make our first decision .
do you agree that PG should vote for us whether or not KAF should be dissolved ?
if a new name is needed, we can call us UAK (united authors of knol (i hope Spiros doesn’t veto)) .
KS: yes, KVSS: yes | no, PG: yes | no, SK: yes

@ SK
i am sorry that calling me by telephone is not practicable . i am a little hard of hearing .
as a compensation i will tell you a little story of my life :
when i was 29, a young girl of 15, which has been living in a commune, and me were talking about wilhelm reich . they had applied him in the commune and i too had read some books of him .
i was fascinated of her honesty and, proud of my knolledge and to show my cleverness, i asked her, if she could analyse me .
she looked at me with her young eyes, then she said : you are lame .
and this became one of the most important moments in my life, because i could see me without my self image . my feelings came through and it was a wonderful moment .
you are not lame. in the contrary, you are very bustling . you look like a juggler .

5/3 SK @ KS

PG is a +2 in intelligence and emotional intelligence. He can be our mascot. I for one would not mind if he decides what should be done about our little dispute.

5/3 KS @ KVSS and SK

i’m happy that we all agree . PG has shown that he keeps his head .

5/3 SK

PG as knol star is an excellent choice.

5/3 KVSS

I am happy to inform my knol friends that I completed a mile stone in my online writing spread over the last two years. I started my serious online writing to help my child in her 12th standard examinations. Then I extended it to the subjects that I am teacing at NITIE. Then came knol. I extended my writing to knol. My priority in two years is 12th standard material. Based on my experience during the last two year, now I prepared a day wise study schedule for two year study for 2009-11, which I published. This effort is supported by an orkut community which has more than 300 members and which grows every day.
Knol is not a priority project for me during this period, but it excited me and knol team excited me by accepting number of my suggstions,and relations with many of you gave me the energy. I could see the ideas of other knollers and build somethings on them. Andreas Kemper’s for Continued Knols is one such idea, which immediately gave me the ideas of concept directory.  Knol author meets is an idea that led to state wise knols for USA and India. Now as I already informed, I have to develop a relation between an US organization and Indian organization. The origin for this idea is Andreas’s continued knol. With my knol portfolio, I am happy. It had 100,000 page views. If you remove coauthors and corporate authors and business magazines, that gives a me a place in top 5 authors of knol in terms of page views as on today. As I already said, I welcome 1000 authors to cross me in this year and I will not feel bad and but feel very happy. Because 1000 authors who have page views more than 100,000 will strengthen knol. If knol is strong individual knol authors can take care of their portfolio at their convenience and according to the demand of their readers. I respond to comments on my knol promptly and my readers are taken care of by that response.
I have to take two or three month rest from this overworking on online platforms for the last two years to protect my eyes, back and wrists. I shall comeback to active writing may be in August. At this point in time my online portfolio gives me 40,000 page views in a month, which translates to 500,000 page views in a year and I hope by the end of next year I shall have a minimum 100,000 page views per month. My base material is ready now and I can definitely improve the content, make it more relevant, do spell check more properly and improve its format.
My suggestion regarding publication of unpublished Ph.d thesis got a positive response from knol help and also from some doctoral degree holders. I hope it will start and that will give real authentic high end knowledge material to knol readers interested in research papers.
All the best to all knol authors. I do keep visiting bulletin board and write knols even though on a limited scale
Your new knol star system is fine.
My interpretation of knol star system is that whenever we are voting on routine issues within our community, our knol star will vote, if we do not vote. You say my knol star is PG and It is acceptable to me.
I agree with your system of online decision making. No body is left out in decision making with knol star system.
I am thinking of a visit to New York next year and en route if possible Germany and France. Last time my flight landed in Frankfurt on the onward journey to New York and Paris durng the return journey.

5/3 KS @ Spiros

do you want to let the majority decide ?
but what do overruled and disaffected people help us ?”
if you write a knol that i have waited for years and i offer you whuffy, would you refuse it ?
you must not change it into money (and actually you cannot), you can give it to another autor for a good knol .
if i offer you whuffy for translating one of my knols into greek and you can change it into money and you need money, would you refuse it ?

05/02 – Spiros Kakos

I would like to promote Knol any way I can. In that effort, I do not see were “money” would have a place: our online writting efforts do not need any kind of financial help. We write because we want to write and not because we will earn money out of this. So I agree to start “Knolling” and leave all the “foundation-money” disputes on the side. However the fact that the Foundation seems to make no real progress on the “promote Knol” thing does make me think…
@ Panos
I indeed initially voted “yes” for the two questions. However the second “yes” (about the Knol star system) was wrong and I have now changed it, since I did not understand clearly what that system was. I actually thought that it had to do something with the star-rating system of each Knol here. That misconception / misunderstanding by someone like me who reads Knol a lot, is indicative of the confusion that wrong names can create. Surely something like that can easily be done by anyone else who is a new visitor to Knol. And that bring me back to the thing I said about the title of the foundation: the very title “Knol Author Foundation” is not “correct”. Since the foundation has nothing to do with official Knol then it should not give that impression in any way. I wouldn’t like new authors to come here and feel oblidged to enter this foundation because they would think of it as something “official”. And when the notion of money comes into play (see above and below in this thread) then things become more complicated…

5/2 SK @ Team

This is my first knol in weeks. Lets just get back to knol writing and give ourselves some cooling off time (eternal time? ) : Self-Purification.

” Everyone conscious of his body must work. If he is ignorant [ of truth ] , he should work for self-purification, and if he is wise and a knower of truth , he should work to set an example to others.” – Swami Nikhilananda in his commentary on the Gita. 

By the level of bickering I can see some of us ( me too ) are +1 when we can be +2. ( reflecting what KS said earlier ).

5/2 KS

@ Panos and SK
“In Democracy = demos (people) + kratos (power) the majority of people have the power to decide.” — 5/2 PP
“I will let the majority decide.” — 5/2 SK
should this be a majority decision without me ? then without me .
you see, this doesn’t work 😉
knol is a new world . there will be “united groups” but not majority-decision groups . never .
what do overruled and disaffected people help us
? — 2009-01-09 KS
knol star represents us only in regard of knol help (if we all decide this) .
in a group we decide by uniting . if we can’t unite in a appropriate time then knol star may decide (if we all decide this) .

@ Spiros and WJ
i am totally with you, with respect that there couldn’t be majority-decision .

my proposal for a new knol star (see at the bottom of this page)

5/2 SK @ Team

Should I not be concerned…?” – Jonah 4 – 11

All KAF members have done is write knols and talk, talk and talk on this bulletin. Not a single penny has been collected. I have spent just about $300.00 to start the legal process. And Panos has spent some similar money.  I also spent $75.00 on the trophy for Randy and $200.00 on a pair of earrings for Chrissy.

I just saw our knol ‘Knoller Hall of Fame‘ one of our esteemed knoller who I still regard as a decent person ( I am proud of his track record but don’t understand this action of his ) who like me is trying to make the world a better place has added shame to this knols title. Why? because some of the knolers mentioned do not have ‘top pick awards’. Is it shameful not to have this award?

So all those knollers who don’t have this award should be ashamed of them selves?

I am not going to change it I will let the majority decide.

I have now realized why we have all this bitterness. It is not about being dishonest or bossy. It is just because one knoller used -2 words for another knoller so all hell broke loose. Now both sides have used -2 words so lets just call it even and move on.

Just think about it; what impression are we creating for new knollers and new readers.

So this is my proposal: Lets keep writing knols and lets just keep talking. No thrift store and no drive to collect money. At least till the air is clear and we are all on the same page.

5/2 Panos @ KS

Regarding the “knol star” my vote is NO. The reason is because we must learn to work together transparently and democratically with no representatives. In Democracy = demos (people) + kratos (power) the majority of people have the power to decide. I personally never tried to be a knol star and represent someone else and I don’t expect anybody else to represent me. However, If you make this decision I will respect it. But you must first decide to vote for a new knol star since Randy isn’t around anymore. I removed Chrissy’s and RK’s names, since they have resigned. 
Your voice and vote are very welcomed! However, I don’t understand. Did you ever voted yes and yes in those two votings as it is showed? Do you want your voice to be represented by the “knol star”? Did you finally agree to dissolve KAF?

5/2 KS @ SK

all i do is to knit together what you write and what i know .
you write : “in order to get wisdom, we must get rid of our self image .”
you further write : “by yourself you can do nothing; seek a friend .”
as a friend i will give you an exercise . i’ll try to help you to see your self image with my eyes .
i will write you a posting and you may react according to your self image . now comes the exercise :
look on your reaction like i looked on you . and see (with my eyes) your reaction to my looking  .
so you learn to see you from outside and this allow you , at least for some seconds, to get rid of your self image and for some seconds you will feel without your normal thinking .

5/1 SK @ Spiros

Look at all the aims of the foundation. How can we accomplish any goals without money unless we just want to post knols. Even to help knol authors we must remember that knollers in many parts of the world are struggling financially.

5/1 Spiros Kakos @ all

What do patents about cooking devices have to do with Knol authors or Knol in general? I strongly believe the discussion is getting more and more out of focus…

5/1 SK @ Team and WJ

I’m not a big fan of this method either. In fact when the foundation is well set up I want to move on. You are right Chrissy is out too. Most important if you all think that the thrift store was set up to cause fraud we will not proceed with it either. I have thought of lots of original projects one of them I registered as a trade mark called, ‘Self mastery theme park ( I think I wrote a knol of this idea). I can donate this to the foundation. Children come to this theme park and taste their future life for a day. Children live out the life of a doctor, homeless person, surgeon, police officer, prisoner etc. for a day. Also rich children can taste the life of a poor child and the poor child can taste the life of a rich child. At the end of the day they go home with their photo on a newspaper cover with a news story regarding their future life.

Also my most serious invention, ‘Flavor enhancing cooking pot’ I can donate to our foundation. The problem with this one is that I have a few more glitches. But it is almost ready. I can file the patent application in the name of the whole team.

I tried many ideas on my own but I have not succeeded only if you all take interest in it then may be we can have enough money to make a real difference in the world.

5/1 WJ @ Whoever

First, below there is a question about voting to dissolve this Foundation. I just want to point out that I think Chrissy is probably vanished along with her husband. I’m not even sure if Chrissy really was an actual person, or just an alter-ego. All of their knols, his and hers are gone.

Secondly, what would entice me to want to be a part of this, would be restructuring of the entire board, so that we all vote on what sort of “offices” we want to exist, what sort of board, what the duties are, etc.  When we have finally decided on all those things jointly, not by dictation, then we could proceed to an election.  The current Foundation was created by appointment.  I’m not a big fan of that method.

5/1 SK @ Team

Way back in 1986 I announced the formation of ‘Durga Mata Prenatal University’. It took me over two years of effort to get the financial viability together.( Without money not much is possible, however even then I did not take any money from anyone only commitments, till I was ready to actually launch it ) I even had the
financial baking from the likes of the shoe tycoon Sadruddin Daya ( he is still a good friend of mine ) of Mumbai, Ajaypath Singhania the industrialist, Askok Birla ( probably the second richest man in India). Also Indra Gandhi’s aunt Mrs. Sheila Kaul who was an MP from Lucknow and she was as I recall minister for education at the central government then, gave me her assurance that she would do whatever she could to help. (She and my father started their careers as corporaters in Lucknow and were best friends.) Most of these people are still in public domain and if one made the effort one can verify all this.

However a host of experts put up articles against my venture and so my backers dropped out and there was nothing I could do. I was so disappointed. However the then consular general of USA in Bombay called me for he was reading and following my articles ( He is still a good mentor to me and I talk to him once in a while, he is now working in the US govt. ) and said that I should go to America and I said I don’t know who will give me the visa? He laughed and said take this form and come back with two photographs. I got my visa the next day.I think I have mentioned this in my knol, ‘Amazing America’.

In fact one of the sons of our ancestral workers ( people who worked for my family for generation after generation ) became a big underworld mafia boss in Mumabi. Even he offered help through his father who still considered himself as our family worker. I told him I would never take his tainted money for my venture even if that was the only money I could get.

I am all for all kinds of prenatal education. But imagine if the experts at that time had not put down my work as bogus where we would have been today. How many children would have grown up to become +2!

5/1 KVSS

Thanks to Sajid Khan I attended the seminar on smart mom today in my estate in Thane, a city adjacent to Mumbai.
The related web sites are 
They gave their first issue of magazine in which they had an article titled “Babies can learn in the womb”.
They mentioned a research study published in Lancet (no further details are there). In this research study, according to them,  a sound was generated and the fetuses moved when they heard the sound for the first time. But after repetitions, the fetuses stopped moving or reacting. So this suggests that unborn foetuses can learn and remember.
We need to take this lead and read more papers on this issue. Sajid can look at the concerned papers. The issue I keep telling Sajid is whether he is trying to convince people to start educating their children in emotional intelligence or he is trying to develop an emotional intelligence education system. Already many persons are out there with EI education systems.Sajid may not be happy with them and wants to develop a different system. Then develop one and use it in your neighborhood. If it is successful there, take it to a town slightly far. This organization in India has many franchisees and they claim they have trained 10,000 mothers so far and the fee they want to charge is 5,500 Indian Rupees for  four sessions of one and half hours each.
Whuffy – an Explanation given by me long back
What is whuffy? It means: Wow! I am happy.
Who is the generator and circulator of whuffy? KS
He makes the initial allocation and if required prompts people to circulate it as the occasion comes. Whenever you are happy because of actions of somebody else you have to express it in units of whuffy. These days whuffy activities have come down. I do not see anybody mentioning the recent knol they have written on the bulletin board.

5/1 SK @ KS

I called you simply because I admire you and feel honored to know you“.
I have used this same language for you before. I wrote a knol in your honor ‘‘Dear Mr. Schwarz’ which is one of your favorite knols. You inspired me to write over half a dozen knols, remember I kept posting , ‘There you go again…’. The biggest thing I want is others to adopt my concepts and you are the only knoller who has used my quantification of the mind ( look up on this board – men in black ( +2 ). You are special to me because I think you understand me well. I also like the way you express yourself. You say in one sentence more beautifully what I cannot in one knol for example.
you are intelligent and very courageous . you could be more intelligent ‘. –4/27 KS @ Panos
I am a fan of your one liners. Also somewhere you mention, ‘let me go, the bulletin board is in trouble’. I like the way you say it. I also like your goal of wuffy. I always ask ‘where you live’ because I may be able to take mutual advantage. For instance I wanted you to contact the Berlin Institute. Also for my antique business certain cities are an advantage. Also you are translating my knol, ‘wisdom’ for free. Don’t you remember the last time I voiced my admiration for you , you said it made you feel shy?

You don’t give up just because a couple of people misunderstand you. Because the truth always eventually prevails.

@ Panos
If a child is frightened it is because you are misinterpreting the reality. I think this is enough I am not responding to any more of your postings.

5/1 KVSS

I wanted to post this earlier. But you were editing already.So even though I pressed save, the computer hanged and I could not post it.

I brought into the discussion the issue of background checks after the Randy issue. It was not in our thinking earlier at all. So it is an interpretation of earlier events and the benefit we got out of it. SK has not thought about it. Neither I thought about it. In between I wanted to know the academic qualification of SK. He did not answer me immediately. After asking for twice or thrice, He informed me that he was graduate and worked as a free lance journalist. Then I complimented him that he is the fit person to write knols now. Many journalists have New York Best sellers. Even Sajid can have, once he applies his brain to it in a focused manner.

The conclusion I made is that, because SK made phone calls and talked to people, and even met Randy personally, when today people confronted us with fake profiles issue, we are sure many of us are real persons. It became essential, as you know when somebody says, I have to see your name on google scholar to feel satisfied you are an academic worthy of my interaction, only a reference saved the day. So every word regarding background checks is only interpretation of events subsequent to the problems of fake profiles, which may have been on KAF member list. With our interactions so far, we know SK is not a fake profile, KVSS is not a fake profile, KS is not a fake profile, PG is not a fake profile, he has the most popular behavioral finance web site, Andreas Kemper is not a fake profile. I do chat with him .

I am not irreplaceable. Anytime for any reason, the foundation can replace me. I am not on knol for leadership of the foundation. I am on the knol to be a writer of some knols. I proposed the association for supporting knol platform and support of authors. Those objectives are important and not my leadership. If some people said, I became the face of KAF for some months, it is something for me. If today, they do not want it, I have no personal problem. As you know, I did not want this position. I said every position must be held by US citizens to start with as there is a need strengthen US knol author community. Knol has to succeed in USA.

5/1 KS @ SK

you did not know my area because you asked me where i am living .
if you don’t wanted to check me, then KVSS is a story-teller, but there is no reason for this .
but these back and forth postings are not very amusing . lets dissolve KAF and start fresh .

5/1 SK @ KS

If I wanted to check on you I would call others in your area. I thought we connected as friends. I liked your straight forward talk and bonded with you. Each and every person for me is # 1. Exchanging ideas with you is a pleasure so in my book you are more than # 1 you are a spiritual twin where we understand each other? I called you after I thought we had become close friends. Yes I admire your spirit and feel honored to know you.

5/1 KS @ KVSS and Spiros

to give a new direction to our discussion we first must get rid of the old stuff .

my proposal for a new knol star :

.< board 2009


Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in: Logo

You are commenting using your account. Log Out /  Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )


Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: