board 2010 (august I)

2010-08-01

KVSS
The day started in a great way for me. I received coauthor requests for two knols. I accepted them very happily. Great way to begin the friendship day. Hope many knol authors greet fellow knol authors on this friendship day and encourage everybody to contribute more on knol. Try to greet around 10 fellow authors whom you have not touched so far. All the best all the time.

Knol authors give your friendship day messages on knol help page. Greet your fellow authors and help knol to bond better.

2010-08-02

KS
as the contest is not open I write my suggestions here : contest A
I made a new knol for our board themes collection : personal thoughts

2010-08-03

KVSS
Started a new initiative
Knol Author Foundation – Member News to write about various initiatives of knol author foundation members to grow knol. Now foundation has 175 members. This bulletin board played its role in the development of the foundation. It is still the main vehicle for open discussions among members as well as other authors and visitors. We need more and more focused knols to improve communication among members.

2010-08-04

AK
You can flattr your Knols. In Germany flattr is growing like twitter.

KVSS
Thank you Andreas Kemper for the information. I am recommending this to Knol management for long time. Adsense may start honor system. We will use this facility in the mean time.

I saw today that weekly page views of Will Johnson are around 32,000. I congratulated him. Weekly page views of Moharram are above 20,000. So we have new page view leaders from English language authors. A welcome sign on knol. We need more authors whose weekly page views are above 20,000. Congratulations both Will and Moharram. Hope you will scale greater heights.

KS
I think good old whuffy is a better system (klotzen, nicht kleckern)

2010-08-05

KVSS
Yes, this flattr immediately brings whuffy into consideration. We are not able to appreciate mechanics of whuffy and convert it into a useful mechanism that can be used to recognize authors and reward them.

KS
learning by doing :
you only need to make an open knol “KAF Account” and look what happens .

2010-08-06

SK @ KS
Can you please tell me what is this Whuffy?
Whuffy cannot replace money. Not even the World Bank has been able to create an independent currency.

KS 2 SK
first of all : if you don’t know what is whuffy how can you say that whuffy can not replace money ?
it’s like KVSS is writing :
Kalle Schwarz has given nine ranks. Which one is first may have a interpretation problem, he may have to give the clarification.
and then he writes :
and if they see this ranking from a founding member of KAF, they will be discouraged.
how can they be discouraged if they have an interpretation problem which one is first ?
but seriously, -W300 has some advantages over the micro credit fom your friend Yunus .
you don’t need to pay it back . you don’t need to pay interest . and you don’t need to pay handling fees .
not even the World Bank has been able to create an independent currency . google can .
and yes, we can .KVSS
Google Wave is closed for development.
What about the future of Knol?
Are we doing something good every day for the progress of knol?
What are our opinions?

MAK @ Team
What is Google Wave?

2010-08-07

KVSS
Google wave is a social networking platform started by Google.
I made this entry in Knol Author Foundation – Member News .
The knol Boom or doom : what potential for Knol? started by Peter Greenfinch assumes importance at this moment. We need positive voices from KAF members. What are strengths of knol at this moment. Strengths built into it by Knol team and strengths brought to it by individual Knol authors and knol author groups. It is good to note that there are two contributions to the knol today.

I feel there is a need to increase membership of KAF quickly now. MAK tried to initiate a discussion on this point. I did not take it up at that time. But now I think there is a need and if all members of KAF try to bring in more members we will expand faster and show to knol that there are very active committed authors on knol. Alberto Aune’s knol submitted to KAF Writing contest is also very relevant in this context. We need evaluation of contest knols by KAF members also.

KS
google wave is a thing between email and chat I think .
I hardly use email and I don’t use chats .

KVSS
MAK thinks some of members of bulletin board and KAF are immature when they criticize KPG members. KPG members’ discussons are private. So we do not know what MAK is telling them. I am now finding frequently many knols in which there is a message “you are blocked from commenting on this knol.” Even before I even visit a knol, I am blocked from the knol. One of the KPG members suggested that I should write a complimenting comment on a knol to appreciate the authors and I went there I found that I am blocked on that knol.
My email id is made public by the members of KPG and is being used to block me. Fine. They have the ability to track email ids even when we have not announced them publicly and do not use them publicly. But should they announce it publicly and should they block a person in every one of their knols and in knols where they are coauthors also. Probably they are insisting it as a price for becoming coauthors.

Is is maturity and fellowship? They still keep a knol on Randy. Randy is a noble man. Does not protest. Says it is my error and still works for knol and KAF. But what about others? I wonder.

KAF is consistent so far in keeping everything they do in public view. KAF is for the success of knol and success of many knol authors, thousands and thousands and not one or two or three or four.

KS
Randy surely did some tricks to publish his knols .
but he didn’t harm anyone .
in the contrary : he loves our earth and he wants others to participate on it .
for me he is a wonderful team player .
I wish I could handle my errors in the same way he did .

Moharram @ KVSS
I’m sorry to read your accusation and questioning about me. Did I tell KAF founders or members anything about KPG? I never play that immature thing.
I’m not interested to tell anyone anything about others.

KVS @ MAK
I totally agree with you that you have not told us anyting about KPG activities or discussions. You also agree that we did not ask you about your KPG activities. We do not trouble any common members. It is only about a comment on KAF members in a particular context and certain behavior of some fellow knol authors who talk of ethics and manipulation on knol platform from high pedestals.

May be you told them also that they are immature. I wrote this post when an incident occured just a small time before. I could describe the incident. But it complicates matters some more unnecessarily between some among us without providing any extra benefit to anyone. I do not really accuse you with any seriousness nor question you. You are doing your best for the knol platform and I should not upset you in any manner whatsoever. I just recounted your description of some behavior when you are angry with it. Yes, these things upset neutral observers and sometimes upset involved people.

SK @ Moharram
KPG are very very good at knol writing. I am a big fan of many from their group and I consider Krishan and SKS as my friends. My only problem with them is that they do not practice freedom of speech. They have bared KVSS and me from writing on their knols. They have also excluded KVSS from their list of top knollers. And they have also ignored my original work, they have accused me of phony science. From their behavior I can scientifically prove that they are +2 professionally and only +1 emotional intelligence wise.

Actually one of the main reasons why the Google management lost interest in knol was because of groups forming amongst us knol writers. If KAF and PKG came together and we start cooperating in improving knol quality I am certain knol help will get involved actively again.

2010-08-08

Moharram
@SK
I think everyone is free to block any annoying author. This is a right that Google – Knol gave to everyone, how can you want KPG authors not to use this right? You have to accept people using “their rights”
@ KVSS
The discussion reveals how you see things from your angle. Since I joined KAF, I tried to make an end for the fight against KPG. But it seems that you enjoy it, and you have the ability to justify it. If you want to put me in front of final choice of either group I want to keep, I will chose KPG and resign from KAF. Thank you very much

KVSS @ MAK
Dear MAK, As I said we do not want to trouble any common members. There are number of common members. No KAF member asked any common member why they have joined other group or association. I personally feel one can be member of many associations as there will be subject wise associations in the days to come and for Knol to grow many innovations are required. I hope associations will not create frictions. KPG founders have a past of starting fights and hurting people. The discussions came because you started it in some context. They end now. You are not a party anymore to further discussions. I do not want to hurt you in any manner and any endorsement of yours regarding KPG members’ actions, we simply accept as your considered judgment of the facts and the context.

KS  what is wrong with KAF ?
once upon a time there were three persons (KS, KVSS, SK) .
but there was no team .
there was no discussion and no democracy .
there was trophy dreaming and reputation dreaming .
so the founding of KAF was a joke .
@ KVSS
you again ignore my entry on the moderated contest page
btw. who is Knol Foundation : SK or RK ?KVSS
The contest page – the main persons are rk AND mak. Any of my suggestions or edits are subject to their approval. Even though I am coauthor, it is for a different technical reason and not for interfering in their way of organizing the contest. They did not ask me to interfere. If I say anything, it is on my own. If they say no, I need to accept their decision. Many of my suggestions were not accepted or attended to and I did not make a noise about it as they are doing something as they see it fit to make it a success. We do not trouble people after we delegate authority to them explicitly or implicitly. In a post on suggestion board, it was mentioned RK and MAK will handle this contest. That is it.
Knol foundation is the responsibility of SK. He takes the technical help of others. RK is closely associated with him in this activity.

KS @ KVSS
that’s incredible . don’t let us discuss that shit .
you are a co-author and you made the page moderated . so just do your job .
@ RK and MAK
can all that be really true ?
I don’t see anything on suggestion board

KVSS
Yes I made the page moderated. It could have been set back to open collaboration. I could not have objected. It is the decision of people to whom the authority and responsibility were given. My action could have been reversed. As you know, we are always for questioning and probing each, other’s action. We are not under command and control regime. We are for free thinking and action. You are writing your articles. Why do you require command and control?

Moharram @ KS and KVSS
I think that KVSS is exaggerating the issue about the contest. Randy asked who made the change and why? It is very simple to say I did it because the contest time is over to prevent anyone delete any entry. The problem starts when someone is sensitive. Team players should have some flexibilities and mutual trust.

Moharram @ KAF founders, members and team
Today I resigned from KAF and my resignation has been accepted.. Thank you all and wish you good luckKS @ Moharram
you are a gift for any group .
it could only be good for KPG to have you as a member .
they should pay us a million for it .
can you invite me as a co-author on the contest page, so I can make my entry there ?.
@ KVSS
do you agree that I become a co-author ?
@ SK
Randy and you are already here as as co-authors . can you remove Knol Foudation ?

Moharram @ KS
Thank you for your encouraging words. Nice to have these words at the end.  I sent you an invitation as co-author for contest page. Anything else that I can do before I go?

KS
thanks . yes, you can .keep an eye on us

KVSS
As I said the page is managed by RK and MAK. I request MAK to be with the page till results are declared. So if you want to ask permission, they are the people not me. If one of them invited you, it means permission from them.
Knol foundation is organizing the contest and its id has to be there. Why is it to be removed? Persons managing the event or the page may be there as coauthors. But what is the necessity to remove knol foundation.

KS
you didn’t understand me .
I said, Randy and SK are already here (on BB) as co-authors .
why then Knol Foundation ?

KVSS
Dear Moharram
I feel bad because my remark triggered this decision. I publicly also request you to reconsider your decision. Our relations keep our doors always open. You were very nice in making the statement that everything is not over with this. I request you to stay with the contest knol till the results are declared. Your experience of organizing the Arabic Knol contest is valuable and required here.

2010-08-09

KVSS
We have good news from Silverio Carugo that an initiative was launched to involve 1,000,000 Italian school people and they will access knol.

KS @ KVSS
You were the one who wrote “Why do you require command and control?”
now you say : “If one of them invited you, it means permission from them.”
I dont know what you really mean, you say this and you say that, but I think you said “yes” 😉

KVSS
“do you agree that I become a co-author ?” you asked the question. I answered. Yes all of us are free to do many things. There is no command and control. But specifically in certain cases, when certain people are handling certain things, others have to listen to them. In the case of competition, RK and MAK are organizing it. Now you are a coauthor. Welcome. May be you will do a competition in German language. Let us look for brighter side of possibilities. Let us close arguments on many topics with positive note.

2010-08-10

KS @ KVSS
thank you for your answer . in any case any answer is better than no answer .
a competition in german is only interesting if we have a bigger KAF account .
may be you will become a co-author of KAF account. so you can close your argument of brighter possibilities with positive note .

2010-08-11

SK @ Knol Help & Team
The bottom line for any company is how to provide profit to its share holders. Knol has not been a money maker so far.  One of the fundamental reason is the verification process. Take my case. None of my telephones are in my name so verification by phone is out for me. It is after waiting a long time and very reluctantly that I used my social security number. Most people in America are hesitant to provide their SS#.
Knol help must find another way for verification. Also people from outside the US must be verified by their email.
Knol is about providing quality cutting edge information/knowledge that is not available elsewhere. This again has not happened. Very few original knowledge knols are being written.
In any successful venture the platform providers and the platform users have to work together. In the case of knol this again has not happened.

KVSS
What are the success measures of Knol Platform? What will ensure its survival and growth and Google funds for knol? So far knol help or management has not come out with a statement. We at Knol Author Foundation also have not come out with an idea as a group. We will be able to do something every day for the success measure of knol if we know first of all what is it? At least we need to define it. Even if some people differ and do a different thing it is ok if some substantial number of people are working towards an agreed success measure.
Many of the efforts are not fruitful because we do not know what we are trying to achieve. We are writing articles. Yes. But when knol is in problems, we need to answer the question what will solve the problem. Then do something in the direction of the solution. I see on twitter every day people writing knol is next to be killed. What are we doing as an association of knol authors? Not even thinking about it.
KS
I have no problems with knol .
to make knol better we exactly need a thing like knol actually is .
so we are able to solve all problems, we only need to use it .
I have a little problem with the co-authorship of Knol Foundation .
first it was Randy . but now he doesn’t need it no more . he is Randy .
it also could not be SK, because SK is already co-author .
may be it’s just the garbage SK wants us to get rid from 😦

RK @ KS
What exactly is your problem with co-authorship of Knol Foundation? Someone needs to be the author.
I was using Knol Foundation and there was a big deal made that I was using an alias. So I put in my Randy Kleinert profile and verified it. If you read the profile of KAF it states who KAF founders are.
What do you propose we do? Should I delete Knol Foundation profile? KVSS would then be owner of KAF with his profile. The KAF account is registered to me. If you would like it deleted, have the founders decide and I will delete the profile
With all of the arguing going on this board I hate to even post anything. We sound like little children fighting, and I want no part of that.
I will keep working on knol but will not take part in daily agruments.

KS @ RK
sorry, I should have made it more clear .
I don’t mean co-authorship of KAF.
I mean this board here .
I know that we are like children and I’m really thankful that you didn’t take part .
so let’s handle this as adults .
it would be great if you could delete it here on this board for this you don’t need to ask anyone .
I don’t want KVSS as the owner of KAF .
I trust you . please hold the KAF account.

RK @ all
I will stay with KAF for the near future. Argue by email or somewhere private.

2010-08-12

PG @ all
Please hold the fire ;-))
Just stepping in to say that The French version of the two “strategic” knols
we discussed here are now on line and running well

SK
I upgraded my knol:
Why the lessons of my life will create the new frontiers for all the mind sciences and how they can help you.

SK @ Team
I propose we vote on RK’s suggestion: Argue by email or somewhere private.
SK:Yes/KVSS: /RK:Yes/PG: /A:

KS @ RK (& PG)
I agree by knol . it’s the most private thing I have ;-))

2010-08-13

KVSS
A nice thought expressed.
I wish we could resolve our differences and come together as one team.
I think there are no real differences in objectives. Being a knol writer and to further that objective working for the success of knol platform. This knol association is to further both of these objectives. Team and personal relationships are a part of furthering the above two objectives. Team is not an independent objective. Yes we formed a team and we wish to go forward as a team.Sometimes heated arguments about specific areas of focus and mechanisms go into personal realm. They are better avoided but still they do crop up. We need to come back to equilibrium state. Hope this discussion helps in it.
Randy came with a private board for discussions earlier also. It is certainly the right option for discussing contentious issues if they are any. We need to refrain from discussing contentious issues on this board. Already somebody pointed it out and stopped writing on the board earlier.

2010-08-14

PG
I found a disgusting extremist libel by Krishan Maggon about KAF in “The Unofficial Google Knol Guide” thread in the Comments section of the KPG page.

This is what this boor wrote:

“Some of us have some resrvations about KAF past and present activities and left that group on our own free will. These involve active promotion of plagiarism, giving leadership role to copy and paste authors, promotion of junk science, health fraud, volume and bulk over quality, antisemetism, neo Nazis, multiple IDs, manipulation of google algorithm to get badges etc. The list is long, the time is short so let us not waste time over KAF. For education, some core values are needed, I doubt one can find these in KAF”.

This is heavy lying (with pure stupidity and narcissism added) as you know all, and I flagged it (I very rarely flag something, and anyway I’m far from sure that Google takes notice) as an abusive comment. I could not answer directly to the comment as any knoller that does not express only admiration for KPG authors has its answers censored (how democratic !). If some of you still keep some access maybe they can tell what they think of such a lowly behavior.

As KM’s comment was an answer to Silverio Carugo, the founder of the KAF Italian speaking chapter and rector of the DIDASCA Italian cyberschool, I sent him a message at http://knol.google.com/k/silverio-carugo/silverio-carugo/hc9s24c3icnc/1

KVSS @ PG
You made appropriate observation. But I do not think it will have any effect. Instead of writing some good articles which some people could read and benefit, some authors on knol have chosen to criticize other authors vehemently right from the inception of knol platform. According to me, it only had negative effect on the growth and reputation of the knol platform. Knol was built upon the principle of highlighting good articles through search algorithms. In the initial days, the need of the platform was large number of articles so that sizeable number of  good articles can be filtered by search algorithm. But I do not understand the counterproductive behavior on knol exhibited by some authors. As I said, PG is the expert on behavioral economics and finance and this is also a behavioral problem. We will understand this irrationality only over a period of time.

SK @ PG
I have posted the following knol:
Dear Krishna Maggon when you make statements like – “… promotion of junk science… by KAF”, then you must prove it…
Every time he accuses me of junk science I plead with him to prove his statements against me but he remains silent. This shows what core values he observes.

KS
@ SK
I hope Krishan Maggon will read that . didn’t you say he is your friend ?
@ KVSS
I think, KM can never be a co-author of bulletin board, even if SK said, he is his friend .

2010-08-15

SK @ KS
Yes I do consider Krishna as a friend. Friends can have professional differences. Just as you and I can have professional differences.
KS

that sounds like a clap with one hand .

anyway, please don’t invite KM as co-author on this board .
btw. you love criticism !?!
well, your theory of  the mind = fragrance of the brain – is a bottom up thing .
that’s fine, brain is a bottom up thing .
but mind is a top down thing .
so your doxy sounds like a clap with one hand .
if you want to clap with two hands you should better say :
the brain is one hand, the mind is the other hand – and the I is the clap .

PG Seeing that the KPG members are using their whole artillery in the comment thread I wrote about below. They are still defending the illusion that the (maybe terminal) illness of Knol is not linked to a dearth of knols on varied enough topics (what KM, never afraid to tell nonsenses, calls “bulk”) for the general public, the only thing that would have brought enough audience and would have satisfied Google.

They are still anchored on the creed – maybe they are sincere or maybe they crave for power, the two things might coexist in narcissic individuals – that the cause of the decay is because they could not impose a highly selective ./ elitist approach focused on knols matching the standards (including subjective ones) defined by KPG.

Mind you; I have nothing against quality, far from it and many non KPG authors write brilliant knols and do their best to make them always better. The KPG people could have played a powerful role to help here if they have been less arrogant and did not considered they had some sky-given right to dictate what is good or bad, and also, incidentally, did not game the pageviews counter by installing KPG as an author while its members got the same PV in duplicate.

What was needed for Knol to thrive was openness to all would-be authors. Not a very good idea to risk deterring them because a few self appointed judges of elegances would snub them for not being in the Goncourt or Pulitzer league.

Of course, it might be giving too much importance to KPG, most authors don’t know that it exists, the risk is mostly potential, its attitude brought only some loss of time and energy, entertaining for example the idea that Knol”s goal was to become another exalted “scientific publication” instead of a general interest media,
What really played a crucial role is the absence of actions by Google to define marketing targets and to attract authors and readers.

Remember also that for a more complete analysis, you can bring your own understanding of the general issue, namely the Knol future, in the “Boom or doom: what potential for Knol” analysis

2010-08-16

KVSS

Cristian Bodor contributed 189 knols. His main area is phonetic script for various languages of the world.
I announced a knol writing competition Essay Writing Competition – Teachers’ Day – Gandhiji’s Birthday – 2010. The initial enthusiasm to read the details is good and in two days the knol attracted 273 page views. I hope it will attract more readers and we will get good number of entries. I plan to organize two more competitions this yearSKS
Just created my “Harmonia Philosophica” new synthesis in English (the original article was in Greek with only a small English synopsis). Can be found at Harmonia Philosophica (english). Spiros Kakos from Kithira!.


.< board 2010

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